I’m not saying somebody is consciously saying this. I’m saying it’s a fact of marriage… if you demand marriage, you are demanding to make it expensive and difficult to separate. That’s a fact. If one were feeling pressured, then one might read it that way, and start thinking of ways to save time and money.
We lived together for 4 1/2 years before we got married. I had a whole list of why not, including my parents awful marriage. Then, one evening, I heard a friend tell about the night he proposed to his girlfriend. Suddenly, I realized I couldn’t remember my list of reasons not to get married. I went home and proposed.
There are some advantages to being married that I hadn’t thought about. Her family treated me differently; I wasn’t the villian any more. Insurance companies thought we were a better risk than two singles. There was a subtle shift in vibes from neighbors, hotel desk clerks, and others. Nobody actually clapped me on the back and said, “you’re respectable now,” but it was implied.
I usually read a whole thread before posting, but I didn’t do it this time.
No worries there. We’re both very career driven and have worked our butts off the last three years. There’s no way I’m risking getting pregnant prematurely and throwing that all away. I’ve got just as much (if not more) as him to lose, in that respect.
eleanor, as much as I’d like to believe he was already had plans to pop the question, I seriously doubt it. I’d bet good money there will be no proposals anytime before graduation. Hell, he wanted to wait until after graduation before we even moved in together! (I didn’t push him on that one, he realized a couple months later he was being stupid, considering he already pretty much lived with me)
And bup, the fact that he knew I want to be married before I have children doesn’t automatically mean he was planning on marrying me. Especially considering the relationship he had with the mother of his child. But, you’re right that he should be cautious. His last relationship was a total freakshow and he’s still bound to the main act for another 9 years. I understand his fears. In fact, couples that race to the alter after a couple months of dating kinda bug me because I can’t imagine they take marriage as seriously as they should if they’re willing to take the plunge that quickly. On the other hand, as many times as he’s made a point to tell me how different our relationship is than the one with his ex, I’m always tempted to ask “then what the hell is the hold up?”
I’m a male, 49, and on my third marriage (so I’m not an expert by any means). I have a question.
A couple dozen posts ago, you mentioned that your SO’s daughter asked you if you two were ever getting married. I’d be curious to know if she’s ever asked him that, and even more curious to hear what his answer was. I imagine the rhetoric would be quite different addressed to a 9-year-old.
There’s no easy answer to your situation. On one hand, if what you say about his past relationship is true, he has a right to be “gun-shy”. On the other, the idea of marriage is obviously important to you, and cannot (and should not) be dismissed out-of-hand. However, in a lot of ways, you’ve made this sound like you’ve been together a lot longer than you actually have. I mean, you’ve been together a year and a half, and living together only 9 months. Not only that, but you’re both about to graduate law school and take the bar. Now, I’m not saying that there’s a statute of limitations (sorry, couldn’t resist) on how long two people should be together before considering marriage, but don’t you two have something else to concentrate on at this moment?
How about this: finish school, pass the bar (no easy feat and best attempted without any additional pressures), get yourselves started in your careers, and then sit down and have an honest conversation about marriage’s pros and cons. No rhetoric, no sidestepping…an honest heart-to-heart. From what you say, you two seem to have a good relationship. Don’t you think it will keep for a little while longer? He claims that you won’t be waiting long…would it be too much to ask to trust him on that?
BTW, in all my three marriages, I was the one who broached the subject first. I think I finally got it right this time.
Whatever you decide, good luck to you both.
I’m sorry to resurrect this thread, but this statement has been haunting me for some reason. I keep going over it in my mind, “It’ll happen when you least expect it and maybe sooner than you think,” with an annoyed tone of voice.
The more I think about it, the more passive-aggressive and petulant and immature it sounds. Dammit, this is the future of a relationship at stake, not some romance novel bullcrap. The more I think about it, the more I get the feeling he’s just saying something to get you off his back for the moment.
Had to get that off my chest.
This thread won’t die! 
Just saw this post. Like I said earlier, by the time we graduate, pass the bar and get established in our respective careers, a good 4-5 years will have passed, most likely. I’m not willing to wait that long before I even sit down to discuss marriage. At that rate, I’ll be likely to have children by the time I’m 40, maybe.
acsenray, yeah, I’ve thought about that too. Don’t know what else to do at this point, though, other than just trust him. shrug Besides, grades came out this weekend and he’s dangerously close to not graduating at all, so all of our focus has just been jolted in another direction entirely, where they’ll likely stay until late next fall. 
It’s simple. If he doesn’t give you an answer, or the answer you want, get to walking. Let him know that you WILL walk if you don’t match up.
There’s a kid at stake here, fer cryin out loud.
You don’t want to wait, and it looks like he wants to wait. Find out why he wants to wait and get him to give you an answer you believe.
Personally, I’d feel ‘betrayed’ if I found out that rather than my partner considering me a complex human being with my own dynamic feelings and desires, and someone who she enjoys spending time with for its own sake, she considers me a stepping stone to her unstoppable Pretty Princess Dream.
What? Are you saying that the desire to have children is a “Pretty Princess Dream?” 
If he’s already planning on asking her, her nagging him about it might be pissing him off. Not to any serious degree, but more like, “if you want me to ask you, instead of you just proposing to me, and you claim you want it to be my idea so that you know you haven’t just pressured me into it, doesn’t it follow that you need to, you know, stop bugging me about it?”
Why not simply propose to him with a marriage date deadline?
Because maybe it isn’t The Proposal that she wants, but a serious and mature discussion regarding whether they are going to get married and when. It’s long past the era when a surprise proposal was a gift that was only in the power of a man to give and a woman just had to wait it out.
Proposal or not, married or not, if the two of you are cohabiting or about to cohabit, and you are about to become a lawyer, and he is about to flunk out, it is time to execute a cohab that precludes spousal support.
Heh. We both agreed that two lawyers getting married without a prenup would be a travisty. Considering the fact that we’re both taking community property this summer, many opportunities come up for that particular discussion.
And while the issue in the OP has more or less been resolved, I don’t mind continuing the discussion, considering it’s one of my favorite topics. 
As far as the proposing to him goes, I may get flamed for this a bit, but I, personally, could never propose to someone. Seriously, I don’t know how you guys do it. I would always be wondering if he really wanted to be married to me or just said yes not to hurt my feelings.
A freind of a friend of mine just got married a couple of weeks ago. While her situation is vastly different from my own, it still cemented the above feeling for me. This girl wore the pants in the relationship from day one. He is pretty much a “yes ma’am” kinda guy. By the time her fiancee proposed, she had already pretty much planned the entire wedding. She had a hall, a dress and bridesmaids all picked out. She had actually booked the hall! Before he proposed! She even had a date, although he didn’t know it yet. She bought her own ring, gave it to him and told him to propose. Yes, really. When I heard all this, my only comment was “she’d better have someone guarding the bathroom window on the big day.” Talk about pressuring your guy, sheesh.
Now, I just don’t have it in me to do that. Like I said, I’d just be paranoid he didn’t really want to be married to me and was looking at it like a chore. I’m not saying all proposals made by women to their men are like the situation above. I’d hope none of them are. However, the end result would be the same either way for me.
And Lama Pacos, that was a really insensitive response. Don’t project your own hangups on other people. You and I both know Rischa didn’t deserve that snide comment.
I apologize. I really didn’t mean to be cruel, and I should have realized what a sensitive topic it is. Though I did find the sentiment expressed somewhat offensive, it’s not really my business.
But then why would a man ever propose either?
Anyway, it doesn’t matter to me, really, because from my point of view, the whole “proposal as an event” thing is irrelevant. People shouldn’t get married because one person decides to suprise the other with a proposal and the other person has to say “yes” or “no.” People should get married after talking about it mutually – Should we get married? Will we get married? When? It shouldn’t come as a surprise to either party. Forget the whole “popping the question” and saving up for an engagement ring thing, so far as I’m concerned. Those are really the least important things that should be in midn.
Well, you can call this whatever you want, but it boils down to marriage. Legal obligations such as jointly owning a house, having children, or legally dividing up “stuff”…all of these things tie two people together exactly as if they were married. You wouldn’t get a stake in retirement benefits, but other than that, I don’t see a difference. I would think that the objection to marriage would be “obligation.” This scenario doesn’t remove obligation from the equation.
Lezlers,
You don’t know me. For all I know we might have cut each other off in traffic & flipped each other the bird. (and if I did, for my part, I’m sorry) I’m a lurker that’s come out of the cold very recently, but that doesn’t make what I have to say a trick, a lie, or a sophistry of any kind. I’m not going to debate other people’s posts or points or do a cut & paste research project here; I have no need to be the only one thats right (and eventually I have to get back to work).
I read your OP post, and it was heartfelt and it was honest; I’ll try to be the same in my reply. Of all the posts made in the pages of this thread which followed, and yes I read them all, I still come back to Triskadecamus original post as the best spot on advice to you. (its only quoted above so you don’t have to wait 10 minutes of paging backwards to find it)
It was 2 pages after I read it that I saw your post where the guy in question told you {not an exact quote}“Relax, it hasn’t been that long.”{/not an exact quote}
Listening to that sentance, I couldn’t help but think that he’s trying to keep you long enough so that you’ll change your mind. His history is that his Ex couldn’t get a ring out of him. Her being pregnant with his child didn’t get a ring out of him. His daughter being born a bastard didn’t get a ring out of him. These are facts of his history and they are not in dispute.
I’m really, really sorry…but yes, you need to leave him.
Now, the shock may rock his world. He may come after you begging to marry him with a ring in hand…and if he does what you do next is up to you. I wish you all the best either way.
He may just let you go, which would suck, but please remember that even if you were not a really great person, even if you were not a talented writer and debator, even if you were not the amazingy intelligent and sensitive person that everyone on this board knows you to be…even if you had none of your assets or your many friends to speak for you…you would still be worthy of having someone who’d have the guts to risk marriage with you.
If you need time to deal with the loss of this relationship, to gather your strength, to plan your next move and to make it happen, then I’d support you in taking that time only. But if you still have your own place and its just a few boxes of ‘things’ to get out of his place, then my advice to you is to pull the band-aid off quickly.
Lezlers, I honestly feel that his mind is made up about this. The only really valid question remaining is whether yours is as well. Best of Luck to you.