Doesn’t which beat is appropriate to clap on depend on the type of music?
I get the theory, and I can hear some difference in the clips that have been posted (especially the one where the beat numbers are labeled as it goes), but I don’t get how someone can just intuitively tell the start and stop of each “measure” when they don’t have sheet music in front of them. If you haven’t been counting from the beginning, how do you know where a measure “starts”? In the clip where the guy plays a 5-beat measure to “fix” the clapping problem, while I can see the labeled numbers, I can’t really hear any difference in what he’s doing. To me it just sounds like he plays a bunch of notes and then suddenly there’s a slight difference in the clapping rhythm. I would never be able to distinguish one measure from another and say “clearly, that measure had 5 notes while the others have 4 notes” just from listening to it.
Obviously I’m not a musician. But what is it the musicians are picking up on that I’m missing?
Absolutely and thanks for mentioning it !
There are types of music where emphasizing 1 and 3 is the right thing to do. Emphasizing 2 and 4 is right in other styles.
Actually it gets on my nerves when some people say that emphasizing 1 and 3 is wrong and means that you’ve got no rhythm. Of course you’ve got rhythm if you can keep that beat steady. Now, emphasizing 1 and 3 may be wrong in some contexts but that’s a different issue.
The fact that the music that is popular now is usually on 2 and 4 doesn’t mean that it’s all there is. People who spout this nonsense should open their ears.
There is a difference between the beat and the groove. I would argue most folks can find the beat. What’s different is the groove - as discussed, the rock groove hits the 2 and 4.
A classic non-rock example is Brubeck’s Take Five - most everyone can tap along to the beats of the music. But asking them to suss out the 5/4 groove and understand how the musicians swing the groove is much harder.
Many folks simply don’t pay attention enough to music to listen for the groove. They are getting the hard 4/4 count right and alternating claps and figure that is enough.
Exactly. Classical music, for example, traditionally has the emphasis fall on 1 and 3. Of course, you’re not generally encouraged to clap along at a classical concert! 
Putting the emphasis on 2 and 4 is called “off-beat” or “back beat,” precisely because it emphasizes what are traditionally the “weaker” beats. That technique is fundamental to some of the musical genres that have been most popular over the last few decades–R&B, rock, jazz, and most pop music–but it’s misleading to suggest that it’s the only correct way for the emphasis to fall. It depends on the style and genre of music being played.
Well, the clap is on the beat if you do it that way–you’re just emphasizing the classical Western music strong beats rather than the contemporary popular music back beat, which in classical music are the weaker beats.
ETA: Or, um, what was said directly before my post.
It helps to break down the 7/8 into two groups of two and one group of three until you can really start to feel the groove. So try [ one-TWO one-TWO one-TWO-THREE :] and see if that helps.
Polka is an example of a genre where it makes more sense to clap on the 1 and 3. Tejano, too.
My father used to principal at a school with a majority Mexican immigrant population. He noticed that this folks had more of a 1-3 tendency than 2-4.
You certainly don’t need the sheet music. I have to say, though, it’s a bit hard to explain and it is somewhat instinctual or just learned through listening to a lot of music, but there’s clues in where the chord changes are (they often happen on the one), where the drum beat is (in most pop music, there’s a kick drum on the one–but there are exceptions, especially if you listen to the Police or reggae-influenced stuff where it’s common to just drop the one), where the repeats are, etc. The easiest way, in pop music, would be to listen to the drums, I’d say. You’re generally assuming four beats to a measure, and the snare is going to usually emphasize the 2 & 4 when it’s not doing a fill (and when it is doing a fill, it usually ends up with it ending on the 1, often with a crash cymbal).
ETA: And counting from the beginning isn’t necessarily going to help you, as many songs don’t even start on the one. You cannot assume the first notes in a song are on the one.
Hahahahahahhaha
Speak for yourself, sir!
Not just hard-to-snap-your-fingers-to rhythms, but quarter-tones to boot: Don Ellis - Turkish Bath (and other tunes from that album) as well as other experimenters in the years following Brubeck’s Time Whatever albums. Even Pink Floyd played around with multiple-meter things on The Dark Side Of The Moon-Pink Floyd 1973 full album (check out the sheet music on some of those tunes.)
But is that a “real” 7/8 or more 2 + 2 + 3/8?
The way I hear it, you only have emphasis on 1 in a real 7/8, with perhaps a secondary emphasis somewhere on 3 or 4, just to break the routine so to speak.
Does that matter? I am asking sincerely; I don’t know theory. When I hear Take Five, I hear a Waltz+2 groove " 1-2-3 1 1" - almost a Bo Diddley groove. That’s not a “real” 5/4?
Well, it changes the feel (or the flow, or the groove) of the music.
I thought that Unsquare Dance was in 7/4? Have I been wrong all these years?
You’re parenthetical count makes me think of Blue Rondo, which was 9/8 (interspersed with 4/4, of course).
And for expert level, try Pat Metheny Group - First Circle!
I was a white person in an overwhelmingly black gospel choir and don’t know music either, so I pretty much memorized how to clap along with everyone. :smack: Throw in rocking and it was quite a challenge!
The organization of stress within the meter changes the feel, but it’s all real 7/8 as far as I know.
What do you have in mind when you refer to your scarequoted “real” 7/8?
What was this about?