A one in two hundred risk of paralysis or death is a very big deal for all of us. I cannot imagine how someone can think otherwise. That’s a fairly big risk. In my small town alone that would mean twenty-five serious cases of polio.
It’s such a big deal in Israel that even though they haven’t had any cases of actual polio, just found the virus in the sewage system, they’re understandably revaccinating a million kids against it.
I’m pointing out that you nitpicking about it is stupid. You don’t win any favors by pointing out that the argument that child rape leads to sexual dysfunctions in children is overstated; you get to be known as that guy who’s defending kiddie diddlers. Saying “polio isn’t always that bad” as if it was an actual argument is phenomenally dumb. What’s more, look at what happens here. In fighting this ignorance, you are downplaying the risks of polio, potentially convincing people that it’s not that important to vaccinate against it. Honestly, I have no problem with a little white lie that makes things better with no negative repercussions. It’s like lying about the jew in your attic, except far more beneficial to society as a whole.
Throw on herd immunity and you’ve got a lot less disease vectors and a lot less sick people. We’re dealing with a massive drop in influenza cases and the associated lack of productivity. And the vaccines are only likely to get better from year to year. It’s people thinking, “Oh, it barely works anyways” and those who decide not to bother that ensure that influenza will not take the same space in our culture as measles, mumps, rubella, and pertussis - “people used to get them, but not any more”.
The motivations are usually pretty straightforward: “I read some stupid scaremongering from some news site based on bad science and anecdotes”. Not in so many words, obviously. The problem isn’t discomfort or stubbornness for most people. For many it’s simple ignorance. But for many more, the thought process is far more akin to “Oh, it’s just the flu, plus I heard the vaccine made my friend sick last year”. You have a lot of otherwise well-informed people who are convinced that vaccines are not safe, that thimerosal is dangerous, or the like. Casual misinformation spread either by dishonest shitbags like Joe Mercola (please, please get cancer, Joe - we’d all love to see how your treatments stack up) or story-hungry people in the mainstream media who are too lazy to fact-check a story that they know a lot of people are interested in hearing. And you playing apologist, even if you claim not to hold that position, is not helpful.
Upthread a ways, the claim was made that 15,000 people die of flu in the U.S. every year. The CDC refuses to be pinpointed, but do claim there are “3,000 - 49,000” flu deaths per year. Now personally, I’d probably rather be dead than paralyzed, but I don’t think most people would agree.
I don’t think I’ve ever been to an antivax website, unless I’ve happened upon one by accident.
Even if no one were vaccinated, your entire town would not be simultaneously infected with polio under any circumstances, so don’t get too worked up.
I’m also certain that nearly all people in your town are already vaccinated against polio, so there is even less reason to worry.
I’m not “downplaying” the risks of polio by stating a fact. Lying about polio does not make anything better, and polio is not a secret. Sorry if they didn’t consult you, but the truth has already been widely available to anyone that can read. If you think people are just dumb sheep that need to be pushed in the direction you want that is “best” for society rather than allowed the information to make their own decisions, maybe you should run for office. You won’t get my vote, but maybe you can lie to enough people that you can trick them into allowing you to force your way in somehow. Then you can really get busy ridding the world of pesky knowledge that people might use to hurt themselves.
And then you can punish wrongdoers and morons by giving them cancer. What a splendid utopia it will be.
I had researched it too without success some years ago. My ex, with whom I’m still in contact is severely allergic to eggs (and has asthma too). If an egg-free vaccine is available in the USA, I guess it might be available in France too. I’ll have to enquire. Thanks all for the info.
Got my shot yesterday. So far, no negative effects. Didn’t even hurt. 
No, it leaves tens of millions of people dead (as occurred in 1918). Most source estimate this single pandemic killed more people than all cases of polio, ever.
As expected, my MD recommended a flu shot at my preop visit today, so the assistant took approximately 0.37 seconds to give me the shot. It hurt less than the pinch I got from an Asian lady beetle yesterday. I don’t understand how an adult could fear such a miniscule pain.
I didn’t expect to feel any ill effects, and after 10 hours I don’t even have any arm pain. I don’t see what the fuss is all about.
My husband had arm pain the same day as the shot. I had arm pain two days later than the shot. But his was more severe. He couldn’t sleep on that arm. I just had some minor pain when I’d stretch the arm out.
Equating the two diseases (pandemic strains or otherwise) remains stupid.
And arguing that since the great majority of polio cases are not severe enough to result in paralysis or death, is like announcing that “99.5% of today’s airline flights landed at their destinations successfully”.
Well, seems like a lot crashed, but I guess the odds are still in my favor. I hope this drives down ticket prices so I can afford to fly more than ever. What’s your point here?
Like polio, most flu cases are not fatal and do not cause serious harm. Also both CAN cause serious harm and have killed many people. That doesn’t mean they are “equal,” but what is your objection to comparing them?
Did I ruin polio for you?
The point is that sensible people still buckle their seatbelts and return their tray table to the locked position during take off and landing, even though we’re probably not going to crash, same as sensible people without medical contraindications get the flu shot.
There are two kinds of risk to consider: the risk of something bad happening, which may be small or great, and the severity of that bad thing should it happen. Both need to be factored in to the decision. The risk of death from flu may be small most years (although not every year, and it’s difficult to predict which year the risk will be great) but the severity of the risk (death) is about as severe as it gets. Add in the much more likely but less severe risks like pneumonia, days off work and general feelings of awfulness, and those risk buckets are pretty heavy. It takes a lot (like previous GBS or an allergy to eggs) to outweigh that.
If the flight does not crash, what are the possible negatives of wearing your seatbelt? I won’t go so far as to say no one has ever been seriously hurt or injured in a non-crashing flight because they put their seatbelt on, because crazy stuff happens, but “what are the possible long-term effects to my health of latching this seatbelt?” is not a question worth a lot of thought. Plus we aren’t given a choice, and will be forcibly belted and charged with a crime if we don’t do it, so there’s no decision to be made.
Getting a flu shot involves unknown risks, whether you like it or not. After the flight lands, we walk away and can be certain that we were not strangled by the seatbelt. Years from now when a doctor tells you you have cancer and he doesn’t know why, you won’t wonder “hmmm, they said seatbelts were safe, but maybe they were wrong.”
While I agree that the risk from flu vaccination to the general population is small, so is the risk of serious flu complications. The inclination to trivialize the unknown vaccination risk and exaggerate the flu complication risk is designed only to get people to make the decision you have decided they should make. When you pretend that there are only pros and no cons, it is obvious you have an agenda, and what you’re trying to sell isn’t science.
Pretty much this:
But also increased risks of blood clots from immobility in some people and rupturing internal organs if there is a crash.
Repeating it doesn’t make it true. The flu shot involves known risks. It involves known risks because it’s been carefully studied for decades, and we’ve identified risks. You’ve presented zero evidence that it involves unknown risks, or even evidence that anyone is downplaying the risks.
That’s why I specified that the belts have virtually no negatives if the plane does NOT crash–if the plane DOES crash, obviously there are lots of other variables to consider. When you get off the plane, you will KNOW whether the plane crashed.
And you should not remain seated the entire flight. Being belted during high-risk times will still leave you plenty of time to walk around and prevent thrombosis.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say the negatives are when you cite the consequences for not doing it (being arrested). Not being arrested is not generally considered to be a bad thing.
I’ve never had a doctor claim to know all of the risks of a vaccination, medication, procedure, etc. for a given individual. Anyone who claims that has either misunderstood, is dumbing it down so as not to confuse you, or a wizard.
Why do you think scientists continue to study the potential risks if they are already certain of what they are? Maybe you should clue them in so they can all get busy curing cancer or something.
The fact that you are now basically claiming that the flu shot gives people cancer makes you an unreliable and invalid participant in any conversation having to do with the science of vaccinations. Thanks for revealing your bias, finally.
There is post-approval surveillance for vaccines and drugs. This is to ensure continued safety, not because someone thinks a horrible danger lies just ahead.
Additionally, studies are repeated over and over due to repeated claims of autism, autoimmune disease and the risk of turning into the Incredible Hulk due to vaccination. A lot of resources have been wasted in the refutation of irresponsible scaremongering.
I thought his Polio Wasn’t So Bad was a pretty good tell, but Who Knows If Vaccines Cause Cancer is even better.
I am not claiming flu shots cause cancer. I was giving an EXAMPLE about how USING A SEATBELT would/could not logically be considered cause for future concern for one’s health - that after taking off the seatbelt and leaving the plane, if you survived, your potential for discovering that the seatbelt was more dangerous than you realized is over.
I am also NOT CLAIMING THAT SEATBELTS ARE DANGEROUS OR THAT SEATBELTS CAUSE CANCER.