flowbark, one more time: it has always been upheld in GD that saying “that is a lie” is considered an attack on the argument and not on the poster. That’s not me talking, that’s the mods, so your argument carries no weight whatsoever. None. Even saying “you are a liar”, which I did not do and manhattan did, is acceptable. In other words, I did not cross the line at all and manhattan crossed in a big way. You cannot justify doing something illegal because you do not like what someone else is doing whether legal, or illegal, but much less if legal. If manhattan or anyone else believes I have crossed the line they can report me to the mods. There is NO justification whatsoever for claiming I condone child prostitution except that manhattan had no other arguments and, being the scum that he is, rather than concede or bow out gracefully, all he wanted to do was to smear me. As you can see he still does not concede that he did anything wrong. If that is not being an asshole I don’t know what is.
The argument that we know manhattan is a loose cannon and we should be careful round him is not acceptable. manhattan should be subject to the rules like everyone else and if he cannot do that he should be banned like anyone else. Being an idiot or a loose cannon is not a valid excuse. By his demeanor in this thread it is quite evident that he is an idiot, to say the least.
I have been sure manhattan was going to get banned or at least suspended several times, and he never gets more than a slap on the wrist. I don’t think he’s going to get more than that for his latest hostility. He appears to have some kind of immunity, and acts like he is sure of it.
Badtz Maru, manhattan has given some years of service as a mod and i do not think he did a bad job. I am sure that counts a lot in the minds of the mods and they will look the other way a bit more than they would with anyone else. They have closer ties than the rest of us and it is only human and I wouldn’t expect anything else. I really do not want to put the mods on the spot over this and that is why I am not demanding any explanations which I think are unnecesary. We all know that manhattan, when he was a mod, would have banned someone for similar behavior in a heartbeat.
But, for the same reason manhattan and the mods have personal and close relations, I am sure they have told him in private that he is putting them in the spot with these things. I am quite sure anyone who has any personal relation with manhattan has told him privately, as a friend, that he was an asshole and to not be an asshole in the future. If you are a close friend of the city cop he is more likely to look the other way when you do something for which he tickets others. As long as no one notices everything is fine but when people start to grumble then your friend the cop will tell you that you are putting him on the spot and you should stop breaking the law or he will have no other choice but to treat you like everyone else. So now, everybody knowing you are the cop’s friend you have a duty to be on even better behavior than the rest.
This thread serves as testimony that manhattan’s behaviour is not going unnoticed. The fact that he is adamant and non-apologetic about what he said just makes it worse. It just means he will have to be so much more careful in the future because the mods cannot keep looking the other way all the time. Not even for manhattan.
Golly, Desmo; you really got him that time. You’re absolutely right; in that thread he did respond to your arguments with his own while not responding at all to your insults.
What a crazy fucker.
[sub](BTW, “me… first raised the subject” is your poor phrasing that’s being ridiculed by Lib. I don’t know why he failed to deride your use of “that” in place of “who”, but maybe it’s just a fielder’s choice type of deal…)[/sub]
This is getting too surreal for me. Maybe it is my medication which needs to be adjusted. I think I will increase my dosage of caffeine. Like right now.
Pot, meet kettle. Manny was far over the top an owes you an abject apology which will not be forthcoming, but the pretense that accusing someone of dishonesty isn’t actually rude and obnoxious just because the mods allow it is beyond stupid, and if you’re half as bright as you appear to be, you should know it. If you don’t, it’s high time you learn the distinction between accepted behavior and proper behavior; the difference is nontrivial at best, and this knowledge would serve you well.
Actually, I missed that part since I only skim your posts. But if you wish to grab responsibility for starting the whole “take your meds” debacle, knock yourself out.
g8rguy, if someone is rude to you it is still illegal to shoot him or rape her and the fact that the person was rude to you first will not let you off. The fact is that what manhattan did was inexcusable.
I was following the forum rules and arguments in GD get heated. If you don’t like it you should stay out. If manhattan cannot control his temper he should stay out of GD. He knows what the rules are and he knows what he might encounter.
The fact is that he made a very serious accusation against the Cuban government: that is forced and allowed and condoned sexual abuse of children. I have no patience for people who, blinded by their prejudice, spout false information whether it is against blacks or against Jews or against the Cuban government or against any other group of people. I said that was a lie and I maintain it. I challenged him to provide evidence that the Cuban government allowed and encouraged this child abuse and he could not provide any. I have no patience for people like that. They are spouting lies which originate out of their own ignorance.
Go to GD and post that “gays promote pedophilia” and see if you do not get very forceful posts against that assertion. If you want to assert things like that in GD you should be ready and prepared to defend them. manhattan was not. he could not back up with facts what he was saying so he resorted to acusing me of what he was acusing the Cuban government.
And, again, anyone who would done something similar under his watch would have been banned in a heartbeat. And I would have applauded him. I have said he did a fair job as a mod because he enforced the rules on me as on everybody else. he should know better.
This must hit a raw nerve with him because he also blew a gasket over the same topic of child molestation some time ago. I’m sorry but if you cannot remain rational you should just stay out of GD.
In case you missed it.
The fact remains, however, that just as you being rude to me doesn’t justify me castrating you with a rusty soup spoon, you not liking what I’ve said and thinking it to be incorrect doesn’t justify you being rude to me; you were also in the wrong. Not as much as manny, by any stretch of the imagination, but if you’re going to be needlessly and excessively belligerent, even if the mods allow it, you need to expect needless and excessive belligerence in return. If you are incapable of debating politely, you’re part of the problem, deny it or not.
Yeah, sailor, there are all sorts of softeners you could have used in your, “lie, lie, lie, blatant lie, lie, lie” post, but did not. Not one, IIRC. Certainly none that would be noticed.
OTOH, I’ve spent more time on you (sailor) because manny’s offense is so over-the-top so as to be obvious. To everyone. Really.
So while Manny certainly owes somebody an apology (how about it, Manny, we’re waiting) let’s not forget that sailor acted inappropriately. Of course sailor was also wronged later by Manny - but let’s face it, accusations that are so beyond the pale really carry little weight.
(BTW, I was not aware of the “lie” opinion that had been handed down by the mods. In that case, I stand behind gr8rguy’s eloquent remark, “…it’s high time you learn the distinction between accepted behavior and proper behavior; the difference is nontrivial at best, and this knowledge would serve you well.”)
I respect the rules and I expect the rest to do the same.
The rules are different for different sports and some allow for more violence than others but as long as you are within the rules you are 100% in the right and the minute you break the rules you are 100% in the wrong. There is no middle ground and everything within the rules is acceptable. If you do not like the rules you should not play the game. If you think football is too violent for you then you can take up golf but you cannot shoot the guy who tackles you because you don’t like being tackled. If you go into GD you accept the rules. Everything within the rules is fair and if you don’t like it then you can go somewhere else. If you can’t stand the heat then it is not a good idea to go into the kitchen. GD is, by definition and by custom, the place for heated debates and as long as I repect the rules I am in the right. if you don’t like it then you can take up golf.
I never called manhattan a liar. I did call President Bush a liar and when manhattan defended what Bush said I said it was a lie. If you came to me and say you have been told Apple computers are better than PCs I can say “that is a big lie” and I am not calling you a liar.
The other posters are within their rights to say what I said is a lie and they have, in fact, done it when they felt like it so I can’t see why I do not enjoy the same right. Do a search for “liar” in GD and you will probably get a lot of hits. GD gets heated in any topic which is controversial. That’s the way it is and it is not for you to say I should abide by your rules rather than by the rules set up by the board.
There are certain debates which I avoid because I know my opinions will be unpopular and I do not have the patience or the will to put a lot of effort into defending my position against major opposition. What I do not do is stroll into the thread with unsuported assertions and then throw a fit when they are forcefully challenged. I try to stick to topics which I feel I can reasonably present and support. Then, as long as we stay within the rules of the forum I will defend my position or change it. And if I lose my patience I will bring the poster to the pit. That’s the rule and I try to respect it. manhattan could have done that but he didn’t. He chose to break the rules in a major way. What he said would not be acceptable even in the pit, much less in GD.
In this thread I said the Bush administration was lying. manhattan’s response to me?
and a few posts further down he posts
It seems manhattan is the one who cannot take what he expects others to take. It seems he can use the rules to his advantage. Did anyone go ballistic on him in that thread? Nope. I defended my arguments as best I could.
Just to clarify: the second quote (I made no such claim, liar) was not directed at me but at another poster (who also just addressed his argument).
I am quite sure that if you do a search you will find that manhattan has used that kind of language much more often than I have (and that most posters have).
I remember having been called a liar in GD by several posters quite a few times and I do not remember having done it (although I may have done it).
Sailor my friend I’m with you as far as the general complaint goes . . . but . . . . It may be time to take a break when you are posting so fast you are almost answering your own posts. I know you are trying to strengthen your position, but the sheer volume of verbiage buries your message and begins to smell of desperation.
I know this is unsolicited advice, but take from it what you will. Whether you remember me or not, we have been on the same side of an argument before, and probably will be again. Time to cool down for a few minutes on this one.
Apparently, you indeed don’t understand the distinction between accepted behavior and proper behavior. This would explain an awful lot. You seem to think that there are no social conventions that should apply, and that accusing someone of being dishonest because they believe something you disagree with is perfectly acceptable as long as the mods say it’s permitted. Of course, there really are social conventions which should not be set aside lightly merely because one can set them aside; these conventions exist for a reason, after all, and understanding them and abiding by them when appropriate is part of what it means to be a reasonable and decent person.
One of the reasons these conventions exist is so that a debate stands some chance of actually shedding light on something; because people like you set these conventions aside in favor of being needlessly bellicose, GD shed little light on anything, even though it could do so if people could just manage to avoid flying off the handle at the first sign of provocation. It’s because people like you are unable to debate in a rational and polite way that GD is the snakepit that it is.
That you are unashamed of causing great heat but no light is one of the most depressing things I’ve seen in quite some time; apparently, simple decency is unimportant in the face of winning. For that matter, apparently winning is the goal and not learning, and that is the most depressing thing of all.
I really don’t mean to pick on you alone, because I see this all over the place and it’s pathetic and a truly sad statement about the human race. And let us not lose sight of who was wronged more. But really, this attack dog attitude of yours causes a lot more problems than it solves.
g8rguy, manhattan’s posts are more aggressive than mine any time. Just go back and read them. Whatever you say about mine you can say twice about his. Anyone who has been around long enough knows very well that manhattan’s posts as a mod or not are as aggressive as they can possibly be.
Manhattan is the one who has contributed zero light to that thread. He has presented nothing supporting his allegations that the Cuban government supports child prostitution. When you accuse someone of such grave acts I would hope you would be ready to provide ample proof. Not manhattan though.
I also find it irritating that he is in the habit of doing drivebys where he plants some outrageous allegations and when challenged just disappears from the thread. That is not debating, that is just smearing and wasting people’s time. In the same thread I linked to I challenged several of his assertions and he never returned to respond. He even made a mistake (Abbu Abbas - Abbu Nidal) which I interpreted in his favor. I was not trying to just discredit him. I was trying to engage in fruitful discussion. I hate it when people pick on silly mistakes and I did not do that with him because it serves no useful purpose.
When he asserted about Iraq “They had a fucking press conference congratulating the 9-11 terrorists.” I said “I say this is a lie and I challenge you to prove it”. Yes I was very forceful but I get very tired of people who just repeat lies they have heard. that one has been debunked here a few times and manhattan still comes in and repeats it. Did he return to provide supporting evidence? Nope. Did he return to admit he might be wrong? Nope, not his style.
Wether I agree or disagree with him I would not consider him one of the most polite posters nor one of the posters whose participation in a thread provides much insight into the matter being discussed. I am sure he is knowledgeable about his professional field and can give a lot of valuable information in that respect but when it comes to general topics like politics, he spouts whatever comes to his mind and then abandons the thread. If he does not intend to participate it would be better if he just abstained.
The fact remains: he broke the rules big time and there is just no excuse for that.
