I completely understand that YOU have some serious beefs with the Catholic church, Christianity, and religion in general. That’s your business.
But how fucking DARE you insinuate that because people remain true to their faith and their beliefs they are in any way, shape, or form condoning the abuses that go on in the church! How DARE you hint that by remaining Catholic, I condone child abuse.
Go fuck yourself.
Sorry, Guin, but until the Pope himself specifically condemns, permanently excommunicates and turns over to the civil authorities the guilty and the collaborators, each and every one, the Catholic Church in the United States is a child sex cult, and you are a member.
Whether you choose to fight from within or without is of course your choice, but it is a child sex cult. Any member who doesn’t admit it as part of the fight against it is, in fact, condoning it.
I think that’s just a little fucking harsh. Calling it a “child sex cult” sure as hell implies that the reason it exists is to have sex with children. Y’know, like a devil-worship cult exists to worship the devil. That’s not what the Catholic Church as a whole is, no matter what evilly reprehensible things some participants in it do.
No, I am not Catholic. I’m not even Christian.
manhattan, your words are very strong, but I share your outrage at the Pope’s inaction. Do the actions of His Holiness not reflect on The Church as an institution?
I usually stay away from religion threads, but oh well
Yikes! That was harsh, A child sex cult? Wow. I wish I had something more eloquent to say, but when I read that I was floored. Without starting an argument can someone explain to me how the whole church gets labled a child sex cult because some members are messed up? I am not catholic, and don’t know much like the catholic church in general, but to label them all,imo, is a bit harsh.
Here’s hoping that manny is being facetious.
I will say this once and for all-I do not condone what happened, and I ESPECIALLY do not condone or approve the way it is being handled. In my opinion, the Pope and much of the clergy are guilty of a horrible sin-almost as horrid as the molestors themselves.
HOWEVER…and this is how Greeley put it-do you worship the church-the institution? Or do you worship GOD?
My anger is with the Pope, the bishops who let this go on, and the molestors themselves. But my anger is not with God.
One thing I want to make clear as well-I am lucky to live in a diocese where our bishop, Bishop Donald Wuerl, has an absolute, zero tolerance policy as far as this thing goes. In fact, he went so far as to argue with a court at the Vatican when he refused to reinstate a priest who was a pedophile. We in the diocese of Pittsburgh have been lucky. (Although I have other beefs with Wuerl, I commend him on his efforts in this area).
BUT…to tell Catholics, who are obviously suffering a great deal of sadness over this, that to stay a Catholic, is to condone what is going on…? Why should I give up God? When my beef is with the Pope and the people at fault?
(For the record, I know someone will say find another church. But why should I? Why should I let the assholes dictate my faith?)
That is one of the worst things I have ever heard one human tell another human being. I’m not sure if it is anti-Catholic or just ignorance but it stinks wherever it comes from. I am Protestant and personally tired of people saying things like “Are Catholics really Christian” and ditto that stupid statement above.
What is worse is it comes from a moderator. Whether it is throwing weight around or not doesn’t matter, because it appears that way.
Love thy neighbor, yeah sure.
Because you are financing it? $7,000,000,000-$8,000,000,000/yr from US Catholics? Is that about right?
Because this story is NOT new? Because this practice goes WAY back?
And, maybe you should tell the Pope/Bishops/et. al. to “bite your arse”?
While I agree manny’s words were a bit strong, I also am disgusted with the way the church is handling this.
They have for years covered up the actions of scumbag child molesting priests. Hell, they have a “retreat” out here in New Mexico where they send these worthless pieces of human offal to be “counseled”.
I am glad that prosecutors around the country are filing more and more on these assholes.
Until the Pope gives a definitive “We will not tolerate this” (compared to his lame crap what, a couple weeks ago) I will consider the RCC leadership as condoning and being a party to child molestation.
Whoopsies, me’s been whooshed. It had to happen eventually.
Your point about directing the blame at the fallible people involved really clarifies things for me, Guin.
If this newbie can be permitted to chime; I am rather scandalized that a moderator would say such a thing! The Catholic Church is not a “child sex cult”!
Generally, I have been impressed by the impartial and objective behavior by the mods on this board, but this is beyond the pale! Disagree with Catholicism if you wish, deplore the actions (or inactions) of the Pope, but show a little respect for the deep held beliefs of others.
:mad:
Hmmm…
I could describe a lot of people at the top of this country and this province with adjectives I won’t use since I’m in an election.
And yet I love the country (and I pay my taxes.)
How odd.
Yes, manhattan, that was an obscene thing for you to say. I am not a Catholic anymore, but I demand that you apologize or I will request that you be removed as a moderator.
890 The mission of the Magisterium is linked to the definitive nature of the covenant established by God with his people in Christ. It is this Magisterium’s task to preserve God’s people from deviations and defections and to guarantee them the objective possibility of professing the true faith without error. Thus, the pastoral duty of the Magisterium is aimed at seeing to it that the People of God abides in the truth that liberates. To fulfill this service, Christ endowed the Church’s shepherds with the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals. The exercise of this charism takes several forms:
891 “The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful - who confirms his brethren in the faith he proclaims by a definitive act a doctrine pertaining to faith or morals… The infallibility promised to the Church is also present in the body of bishops when, together with Peter’s successor, they exercise the supreme Magisterium,” above all in an Ecumenical Council.
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part One, Section Two, Chapter Three, Article 9, Paragraph 4.
Do you subscribe to the Catechism?
And what, precisely, does manny’s comments as a poster have to do with him being a moderator?
At any rate, I think the Catholic Church has a few slurs coming to it anyway. Anyone who owns that much property tax free can kiss my ass.
Actually, papal infallibility is only in matters of dogma. Just because the Pope says, “I believe it’s raining outside,” does not make it so.
Christ, here’s a Lutheran defending papal infallibility!
He is a member of the management team here. As such he has a responsibility to maintain a good example. Saying something loathesome and trollish is behavior unbecoming a moderator.
So, Marley, what you’re implying is that if Guin doesn’t believe the Pope is infallible–if she thinks he’s [gasp] wrong about something–then she’s not a good Catholic?
Sheesh. Guin, I know you said not to tell you this, but–find another church, dear. You don’t need one that doesn’t allow you to question the Suits At The Top.
And–one more vote here for that being a really ugly thing for Manhattan to say. 
“loathsome and trollish”–um, yeah…
I’m sorta torn on the issue. I do believe that the vast majority of Catholics condone this behaivor by their actions. You are going to tell me that entire Parishes wouldn’t have any idea about what their Priests were up to? No, I think many knew, and did nothing. Until the members of the Catholic church themselves do something, instead of saying “Oh, it’s the Bishops problem”, or “Oh, it’s their problem”, or “Oh, I feel awful about it, but nothing like that would happen here”, or any other excuse, then nothing will change.
How many of the Catholics on this board have demanded to know the history of their Priests? How many have demanded that there be full and complete disclosure of a new Priest? How many have demanded investigations? How many have provided a warm and safe enviroment for victims to speak out? How many have actively fought the Church on this issue? How many made this issue their problem before it hit the news? These are your children, these are your religious leaders, and I’m not convinced that many of you are doing anything about it, except wringing your hands, and shaking your heads in disgust, and protesting that has nothing to do with you. You know, if all 9,000,000 members of the Catholic Church spoke out, I bet there would be some changes…are you doing anything about it? If not, you are condoning it.
Actually, that is false logic. Members of the RCC, and other churches, are now learning that such measures as you describe may be necessary, but in the past it was thought that these men could be trusted. And the vast majority can. Trusting that someone is good is nowhere near the same thing as condoning bad behavior.