Marathon runners.. help

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve decided to try and run a marathon. I have no idea why this sounds like it is something I should do, but none the less I’m going to attempt it. The Portland marathon is 162 days away and I’d like to finish it. I need advice on training.

I presently run 3 times a week (Tue, Thu, Sat) about 6 to 7 miles each at about an 8 min/mile pace for a total of about 20 miles each week. The furthest I’ve ever run in one attempt was 12 miles. I haven’t done that in close to a year, though.

On Mon, Wed and Fri I go to the gym and do the recumbent bike for 45 minutes followed by 15 minutes of weight training. I also play ultimate for 1.5 hours each of those days.

I looked at Hilgdon’s training schedule for intermediate-II and I think I can do it. I’d give up the recumbent bike and just run 5 days a week, but I don’t want to give up playing ultimate. My modified schedule would have me resting on Saturday and “cross-training” on Monday with ultimate. Hilgon suggests not doing “stop and go” type sports for cross-training and also suggests not moving the rest day to Saturday because he wants you to be more tired for the long run of the week. So, I’d be breaking two of his guidelines for training.

Does anyone have any experience with training for a marathon they can share with me? Am I out of my mind to think I can continue to play ultimate and train for a marathon? A friend of mine directed me to these other sites for training information:

http://www.jeffgalloway.com/training/time_goal.html
http://www.coolrunning.com/engine/2/2_4/143.shtml

2

I used Hal Higdon’s plan to train for my last marathon. (It was my fifth) For my other marathons, I trained with an in-person running group (like www.usafit.com) that had group long runs and had their own plan. Higdon’s Intermediate plan is pretty heavy on the mileage, so I’d be careful. I felt like a 10-mile weekday run was pretty long.

Anyway, I really didn’t do any cross-training. Pretty much the only exercise I do is running. So the fact that you’re veering from his plan slightly (to do the activity that you want) is probably not substantial.

Since this is your first marathon, the best advice is to just listen to your body. You’ve already got good fitness, you’ll just be extending your endurance. Don’t try to necessarily run FAST your first marathon…focus on covering the distance.

I’ve known people to run with Galloway’s method, and pretty much any training plan that’s out there. There are lots, and pretty much the essence of “getting your long run in” is in my mind what’s most important. I think you’ll have no problem completing a marathon (providing you avoid injury) it will just be a matter of how tough it will be for you.

3

I’m a very, very bad runner, so I’m not going to give any training advice - but everyone I know who has done Portland has loved it. According to rumor, it’s a wonderfully put on and well supported race - and great for first time marathoners.

Good luck!

4

I’ve finished ten marathons (Boston twice, NYC twice, etc) starting at age 56, but everybody is different, and training varies widely accordig to you ability, time available. You don’t say how old you are, and that is a factor too, of course, although any age can do them if trained sufficiently.

There are lot of people who can get by on minimal training, but far more hit the wall around 17-18 miles because they have not built up a sufficient base of long distance running. You gotta’ run long distances to become a long distance runner. :smiley:

I subscribed to the LSD (long slow distance) training method, and for your first marathon, you really should steel yourself not to worry about time, but just to try to finish.

I ran 7 days a week, but alternated easy/hard or rather long/shorter days. Usually 5-7 miles a day for six days and then a long run every Sunday of 20 miles or more. You really have got to get used to long runs. Any fit runner can race up to around the 20-mile point, just going as fast as possible, and slowing down when tired.

Unfortunatley around this 20-mile barrier, you’ve used up most of the glycogen in your muscles, you are dehydrated despite how much you drink, and it gets really painful the last 5-6 miles. Only grit and stupidity keep you going. :slight_smile:

Should this occur, alternate walking with running, and at least that will get you over the finish line. If you have trained enough, are strong and fit, and lucky,you may not have this trouble at all. I hope so.

My experience has shown that the really most difficult and important thing is to cultivate a sense of pace. Most beginners shoot out of the starting line as though they were running the 100 meter dash, and they will die later. Keep a watch and time yourself for the first mile. You’ll probably find you are going too fast, so then adjust and try to hold a steady pace that you feel is right for you to finish.

The best marathons I ran I did the second half a little faster than the first, as I purposely went a little below my target pace the first half. Of course, I was an old fart wehn I ran those, so you may well do better, but I’ve seem people of all ages crash. The thing that was fun for me was the last five miles when I plodded on steadily, passing hundreds of hot-shots who were just walking because they went out too fast.

Don’t skip the water stations, but don’t drink too much eithe as they as been shown to be dangerous too. Slather some petroleum jelly on you feet and toes and you private parts before starting to avoid blisters. Wear a hat and shades,

Good luck, and enjoy.

5

I’ll second this. I ran my fifth marathon last year in San Diego. I had four under my belt and decided I could skip many of my long training runs. I did only three runs of more than 15 miles leading up to the race.

I was having the race of my life. A three hour pace, which would have been a personal best. Up till mile 22 where I about died. It’s a horrible feeling because you’re mind is telling you to keep going, but your legs just can’t do it. I finished, but my pace was gone, and I felt terrible about it.

Build up your long runs, but don’t skip them!

6

I’m resurrecting this because it is now 31 days to the marathon and I’m looking for any advice for the month lead up to the actual marathon.

I’ve done a number of long runs (1 19 mile run and 4 20 mile runs), experimenting with eating gummies on the runs and not eating anything. The gummies didn’t seem to help and I found I had to walk to eat them because I couldn’t chew and run at the same time (breathing issues), so I’ll probably just skip them from now on.

I have 1 more long run scheduled before the actual marathon. Should I attempt 23 or 24 miles on that one or should I avoid the injury risk and just go with what I’ve done?

Any advice on carbo loading? Friday before the long runs I have pasta for dinner. Saturday I try to rest, drink lots of water and eat carbs such as a baked potato and bread. Saturday is also the day I tend to eat more cookies and brownies simply for the sugar (simple carbohydrates).

When people ask me what it is like to train for a marathon, I tell them it is easier than I thought, but harder than I imagined. I always thought marathon training required running 10-15 miles 6 or 7 times a week with many, many runs of 20 miles or more. I’ve since learned it isn’t, and therefore training was easier than I thought it would be. However, I’ve learned that running more than 15 miles is far harder and is so much more a matter of will than I ever imagined it would be.

Wish me luck. I’m certainly going to need it!

7

I’d say about a month before I did a marathon, I put in a long run. . .22 or so.

3 weeks prior, I did an 18.

2 weeks prior, I did a fast 16.

One week prior, I did a couple 12s but nothing that wore me down.

Keep your diet close to what you’ve been doing. I’d suggest RIGHT NOW trying to work in some power bars/power gels to your long runs. You definitely need to eat during a marathon.

Let’s hear how you did when you finish. I did New York in '97. It was a blast, but I haven’t done one since, and probably won’t.

8

Let’s see, about a dozen marathons, a fifty miler and such over about six years.
-The most common mistake you can make in this final month is to overtrain. You really can’t improve yourself very much between now and the race, and if you hurt yourself or overstress yourself you don’t have time to recover.

-Go for an 18 mile run four weeks out, and then don’t go over ten. On days when you go more than five take the next day off. Don’t go over 5 for the last two weeks. Don’t run much at all the last week. Just a mile or two a day to stay loose. Try not to run for two days before the race.

-Eat protein the night before the race. Get up early the day of the race and eat a good breakfast with lots of carbs. I like a big bowl of raisin bran, a corn muffin with butter and a banana.

-If at all possible try to take a poop before you leave in the morning. I can’t stress this enough.

-Hydrate, but don’t drink too much. There will be lines at the port-a-potty.

-Before the start of the race you might want to take some tylenol 8 hour.

-Don’t wear or carry anything in the race that isn’t battle-tested. The day of the marathon is not the day to try anything new.

-Leave a little space in your socks at the toe.

-Don’t lace your shoes too tight.

-There’s this stuff called Bodyglide. If you’ve ever chafed you want to buy some now.

-Start slow and try to run a reverse (second half faster than first half)

-If you can eat food every hour even just a powergel, and even if you have to choke it down, you may avoid hitting the wall.

-Drink the gatorade or Ultima they offer you along with the water. Don’t force yourself to hydrate, drink when your thirsty but try to drink just a little bit more than you think you need, and just a little bit earlier than you think you need it.

-Think about carrying a small disposable or digital camera. Hold the camera at arms length and take a picture of yourself every mile. Watch the transition from joy to misery to exultation. Save the picture from mile 23. This is what you will look like when you are 89 years old.

-You will probably hit “the wall” This is when your body uses up all the energy stored in its muscles and begins to run directly and inneficiently on stored body fat. A couple of things about “the wall:”

  1. It will suck just as bad wether you walk or run, so you might as well run.
  2. When you are in ultimate suffering and you feel so bad that it can’t possibly get worse… it doesn’t. That’s as bad as it gets.
  3. When you stare into the abyss, the abyss must also stare into you.
    Concerning energy management. You’ll see a lot of people whooping and hollering at the start. Don’t. Save it for the finish if you still feel like it. Don’t be overcautious. It takes a certain amount of energy just to be out there on the course. You need to make relentless forward progress at an appropriate pace to get you to the finish line before you completely run out of energy. You will run the race you’ve trained for, so run your training pace, no faster, no slower.
    Concerning injuries: You are not going to win, so if you get hurt, by all means, stop running so you don’t further injure yourself.

Philosophy:

After a dozen or so of these things I firmly beleive that a marathon actually consists of two races. The first race is 20 miles. You will accomplish this by your training. You may have a good day and do the whole race without a problem, or you may have a bad day. In either case you will make the first 20 miles (or not) as a result of your training and conditioning. Your goal for this first 20 miles is to get through it quickly and efficiently and ensuring that you reach the end of that first 20 miles in the best possible shape you can. You need to be strong, fed and hydrated at the end of those 20 miles.

The second race is 6.2 miles. If you are having a good day and you are in good shape you will finish it the way you ran the first 20. Otherwise, you are going to have to get through those 6.2 miles on willpower and testicular fortitude. It may be fun, or miserable. If you are running at this point (which you should plan on,) you will be passing a lot of people who did not follow the good advice I’ve given you so far, and you will run a great and satisfying race based on these last 6.2 miles.

If you are feeling miserable remember what I said about it sucking whether you walk or run.

You can trick your mind into doing this last part well. Here’s how. In your final month of training, make your runs exactly 6.2 miles. Do them so you get used to that distance. When you hit 20 miles just tell yourself all you have to do now is your normal daily training run. Piece of cake!

-After the marathon eat and drink immediately. You only have half an hour from the time you stop running to replenish yourself with food and water if you want to have a fast recovery.

-Take your time with the recovery. Walk and stretch rather than sit.
Good luck!

9

My Wife is training for a tri-atholon. And has run 4 marathons. She is swimming, biking and running for her training. From what I have seen her do, you seem to be on a pretty good track.

One thing that always seems to be stressed, is don’t change your energy drink/bars or anything else that you are used to for supplements or energy on the day of the race.

My Wife always likes to pre-drive the course a few days before the race.

For us, it is not always possible because we have to travel to the races. Sometimes it works out. For myself, it helps too. I can kind of visualize where she might be.

Remember what I always tell my Wife – Just signing up for it training and starting makes you a winner.

10

Thanks for all the great tips!

**Scylla[\b] - you won’t believe this, but your marathon story is one of the reasons I even started doing this. As a matter of fact, I really wanted to try and beat your time of 3:40 or something that you once posted. So far, I’m on track for that. We’ll just have to see how it goes.

Most of the rest of your advice I will adhere to as best I can. I’ve never eaten before a run so I don’t intend to start now, though. All my training has been geared to match this race as best I can. For example, the race starts at 7:00 and I typically start running by 6:30. There is a 200’ hill at around the 17 or 18 mile mark, so during my training I make sure I’m on a hill around that mark. I bought new running shoes about 3 weeks ago and those are the ones I will be in on race day.

I’ve actually pulled that mind trick you talk about. My 20 mile training route consists of a 15 mile loop that puts me right at the start of a 5 mile loop I run at least once a week. Running the last 5 miles is tough, but knowing the terrain and the feel of how much further I have to go really does help.

11

You’ve gotten some good advice upthread, and I pretty much agree with it. I’ve run three marathons and from your description of your regular training routine, I think you’ll do fine. You sound reasonably fit, you’re planning out your long runs and short runs, and your head is definitely in it. My only advice- at this point, don’t overtrain. With the exception of world class-level, professional runners, I don’t think it makes sense to include training runs of anything over 18 miles or so. Once you hit the 20 mile mark, you’re only half way there in terms of the mental drive and physical abuse it will take to get you to the finish line. It would take years of conditioning at 20+ miles to overcome the body’s natural inclination to pack it in.

The last 6-8 miles will be grueling, plain and simple. Don’t risk injuring yourself at this point and undoing months of preparation.

I’ve never run Portland but the sensation I’ve felt at the start of marathons has stayed with me- there 's an energy in the air, your body feels good, conditioned and energetic, but not fidgety or jumpy. It’s cool- if you’re running in the fall- and the sun is coming up over the horizon, and it’s beautiful. There’s a lot of chatter obviously, and excitement. I try not to run near anyone I know because I don’t want to talk to anyone. I just want to kind of get into my head a little, take in the atmosphere, find my center. It’s one of the best things about running- being in the midst of hundreds or thousands of people who all are about to embark on the same grueling journey for the next few hours, but knowing that my head, and my body, and my conditioning, are going to be what get me there. It’s a very cool feeling, and writing this right now is making me wish I had decided to train for New York this November.

Ah well, there’s always next year. Have a great race and good luck.

12

Don’t know how big Portland is, but in my sole marathon in Chicago a couple of years ago, TONS of people started way further up than they should have. Like an idiot, I started with the group predicting 4:10 finish. Ran just a few seconds over 4:00, but spent my first couple miles elbow-to-asshole at a 12:00 pace, then the rest of the run trying to spot gaps where I could pass people without breaking stride. So I recommend lining up a little further in the pack than you might conservatively think.
When you line up, wear an old sweatshirt (or garbage bag) you can just throw away at the start. Maybe pick up some old thing for a buck at Salvation Army. Hell, you could follow a marathon track and fill several closets with brand new sclothing folks tossed along the way.
Hit all the water/drink stations, but go a little further down the line. Folks tend to bunch/slow up at the very first tables.
Try some goo before hand during a training run - some folks don’t stomach it too well, and like Scylla said re: clothing, you don’t want to do anything “experimental” for the first time during the race.
I was expecting hitting a wall, or some other exceptional experience, but after doing the Higdon regimin it was just 4 hrs of hard work in a crowd. Then the following year I had my knee scoped - torn medial meniscus most likely attributable to the miles of marathon training.

13

Dinsdale - you never hit the wall? Wow… that is impressive. I’ve heard nothing but bad stories about what happens at 20 miles. That is why I was going to try a 23 mile run next week just to see how I respond to hitting the wall. I want to be mentally prepared for it.

14

I’m in the arse end of my training for the LaSalle/Chicago Marathon.

A few tips:

Use water and gelL rehydrate/reenergise every 4/5 miles or so.

Use a mixture of hilly and flat routes in your traing courses: I’ve trained heavily on hillier, 4-11 mile stretches, and am pushing up into the 20-mi9le range by adding flatter stretches. The hills really pay off.

Regarding chafing and blisters: may I happily reccomend by new best friend, Body Glide. Beats Hell out of Vasoline, but either is much better in preventing chafing and blisters.

I also heartily reccomend good supporting/lining wear: keep it light, keep it breathable.

Be sure to work up to a 20 mile run, and give yourself (at least) several weeks for recovery from said run.

Plan ahead regarding course difficulty: understand the “hilliness” of the event course, and whether it is a closed course. Closed courses end where they start, which means that the net vertical displacement is zero: the up- and down-hills “break even”. Open courses can have net gains or losses in height.

Don’t kill yourself by forcing hills, or by speeding down hills and flats. Pick a steady, conservative pace, and stick to it. You’ll need the energy for the later stages of the race.

This bears repeating: Don’t waste energy in the first half of the event.

If it helps, “stage” the race in terms of your more comfortable events:

Marathon “=” Eight 5K Runs
Marathon “=” Four 10K Runs
Marathon “=” Two Half-marathons

Generally speaking:

Miles 0-4: Warming up :slight_smile:
Miles 5-8: Comfortable :slight_smile:
Miles 9-11: ‘First Wall’ :confused:
Miles 12-17: Starting to Feel It :frowning:
Miles 18-22: ‘Second Wall’ :eek:
Miles 23-26.2: Pain :eek: :eek:

The key is to get comfortable with the 13.1/Half Marathon distance, even on hilly courses.

Include lots of 10K-15K events as ‘base runs’.

The runs above 15 miles are expensive, even so, you must work in runs spanning 15-20 miles.

You must definitely actually run a 20-miler before the Marathon. You will need the mmemory of this successful 20 mile run to convince your body that it can make the last stretch of milage. The many ~10 milers, and the set of runs in the 13-17 mile range will train your body for basic endurance.

Keep your clothing as light as possible. The high-end stuff like body armour is good, but understand that friction is your enemy here. Don’t train with broken down, cheap shoes. Get some real shoes and socks, and make sure that your shoes are appropriate for your weight and posture. Your event day shoes should be ‘broken in’, but not ‘broken down’.

15

I’ll add to more points. By not eating much before and deciding not to eat during the race, you really are setting yourself up for some trouble.

So far you’ve only run 20 miles. Trust me that that last 6.2 can be a real bitch. It will be a different race. You will be out of fuel if you don’t eat.

Suck down a couple of powergels around mile fifteen and/or mile 18. You will need it. Physically, it is just extremely unlikely that you will have enough fuel in your muscles to carry you through. It takes a while for that fuel you eat to get into your system and you probably never saw the difference with eating because you were going not far enough to be completely depleted and there wasn’t enough time for that fuel to get into your muscles.

For the marathon you will be going far enough to be depleted, and if you eat at miles 15 and 18 there will be time to for it to do you good.
Second thing. While I’m glad to have inspired you, DON"T GO BREAKING MY TIME! As far as I know I have the SDMB record marathon. I’d hate to see you break it on your first time out. What am I chopped liver?
Just kidding. Go for it!

16

Fortunately not something you need to worry about in Chicago, tho that Roosevelt Rd bridge can loom mighty huge in the last mile! :wink:
Good luck!

17

The only time I chaffed really at all during a run was when I tried a 14 mile run in the rain. My shorts ran up on me and I was pretty sore in the upper thigh area to the point of bleeding. However, since then I’ve not had any other occurrences although I’ve never had to run in the rain again, either.

cerberus - As other have said, I don’t intend to drastically change my training at this point. I do just a little in terms of hills on my typical runs, but probably nothing drastic. The course I’m running is mostly flat, so that is how I geared my training.

I asked about pushing to 23 miles for the final “big” run only because I was curious what others had done in the month before the main event. Since I’ve yet to hit the wall, and as Scylla points out the last 6.2 miles are entirely different, I wasn’t sure if I should find out what it will be like running those last 6.2 miles now or just wait for race day. I’m going to push for 23 miles a week from Sunday on my last big run and see how it goes. It will help me determine how to eat on race day.

Scylla - I have no idea if I can break your time or not. It was a goal, not an obsession. Still is, but realistically finishing is the real goal.

My mental attitude through this has been thus:

March: There is no way I can run a marathon.

April: Wait… training is about what I do now, with nothing but a big run on Sundays. Maybe I can do this. I’ll start training and see how it goes.

May: Training is easy so far. I intended to do 9:00 minute miles, but I’m actually hitting 7:30!

June: I can’t believe how good the training is going. 11 miles was way easier than I ever thought! I’m hitting 7:00 min/mile and I’m doing okay with that even at 16 miles!

July: Something fell apart between 16 and 19 miles. Where I used to be able to run 7:00 min/mile consistently, I can’t anymore, even for 10 miles. No worries, just keep training and try to keep an eye on that 8:00 min/mile pace. That will get me in at 3:30 or so. My goal is 4:00, so I’m okay with that.

August: The 20 mile runs are better if I stay more consistent on my pace. I’ve learned that just because I feel great on the first 3 miles at 7:00 min/mile pace doesn’t mean a thing. Keep it at 8:00 min/mile and I finish strong. Just finishing this marathon in 4:00:00 (my original goal) will be a stretch, but I think I can do it.

So here I am, 28 days out and as ready as I’ll ever be. I know what I can do on a 20 mile run, and I just hope that translates into the 26.2 mile run. I know I’ll finish, it is just a question of whether I’m crawling or jogging across the finish line.