I’m very surprised that you think this is illegal Chefguy, after serving in the Armed Forces. Once you sign the dotted line and say the oath, you are now government property. Yes, today many service members do get married without permission and suffer no repercussions, but the CO does have the power to say yea or nay, and it’'s called “for the good of the Navy/Marine Corps/what have you”.
Getting married on the outside is a relatively simple proposition, but it does place a burden on the Navy. The paperwork for the spouse and dependent, including ID cards, changing pay records to reflect VHA, BAQ, etc., the impact on Navy housing and commissary and exchange services all play a factor. In today’s Navy, I’m sure 99 out of 100 CO’s could care less, but for the 1%, they can and do deny permissions such as this.
It wasn’t that long ago when I had to get permission to grow a mustache, and then get permission to wear civilian clothes on base!!
As to the OP I think Mr. Moto gave some good advice, go to the CMC.
I don’t buy any of it. It’s either a regulation that is enforced uniformly, or it’s not a regulation at all, which means it’s discretionary on the part of the CO, which means it’s not enforceable. There are policies and there are regulations.
It was the policy of our battalion CO that officers could not bring their wives with them to deployment sites overseas. They were told not to do so. He made life uncomfortable for those who defied his policy, but he had no regulation with which to prosecute them, since the spouses were free citizens of the U.S. and could travel anywhere they damn well pleased.
It may be a CO’s policy to approve or disapprove a marriage, but he can’t prevent a service member from going out and buying a marriage license and getting married. His disapproval can make it difficult for the service member’s family to draw benefits, of course, so life could be problematic for the guy regarding base housing, etc.
I still say check in with the base JAG and get the legal reading on this. I’m betting they will rule in favor of the soldier.
Whatever Charlie does, he’d better not openly defy the CO.
Not asking for permission would have landed him in trouble. Proceeding once permission has been denied would be far worse.
Captain’s mast would be guaranteed, and if the CO wanted to, he could impose strict penalties, like.
Restriction to the ship, typically for about 45 days.
Extra duty for the course of the restriction.
Reduction in rank.
Forfeiture of pay, usually 50% for a couple of months.
Any combination of the above.
Chefguy, keep in mind, I’m not telling you what to post or not to post. But Gravity is taking what she sees on this board and using it to give Charlie advice. And you’re muddying the waters with yours.
What the captain can and can’t do (incidentally, he can) doesn’t do much good when you’re an E-3 who not only has to get married, but also has to keep serving on this ship for a few more years.
Things like going to see lawyers, family service centers, and other assets outside of the holy CHAIN OF COMMAND without exploiting it first are bound to get a young sailor noticed. In a bad way.
Going to see the CMC with a problem is the appropriate thing to do. It is what the CMC is there for. It shows respect for the process, the chain of command, and the participants thereof. That will serve Charlie a lot better.
Don’t wory, Mr. Moto, I am aware of that! The last thing that I want is to give bad advice to him or my sister. The more information that I have, though, the easier it will be to figure out where we should go from here given our exact situation.
Well, I just spoke with my husband (remember, he retired two years ago after 26 years in the Navy) and he concurrs withMr. Moto. The Navy doesn’t have a policy against E-3s and below marrying, which means that this denial is coming – for whatever reason – from the CO directly. Possibly the CO knows more about Charlie than Gravity’s sister does. Maybe he has a long list of letters of indebtedness (creditors can send these letters to a servicemember’s CO complaining about unpaid debt). Or maybe Charlie’s been in and out of trouble with the law and/or trouble with substance abuse adn he hasn’t let his fiancee know about these problems. In these cases, the CO would have reason to believe that allowing Charlie to bring a bride and step-child from Vermont to Virginia is Not In The Best Interest Of The Navy. Or, it’s possible that the CO simply has some sort of personal bugbear against low-ranking enlisted people marrying and he turned down the chit as a matter of course without knowing anything more about Charlie specifically. A third reason Kevin suspected might cause the CO to turn down a request to marry might be that Charlie gave a wedding date during an at-sea period and it wasn’t the marriage the Co objected to so much as Charlie potentially being gone while the ship was deployed.
In any case, as Mr Moto said, escalating things legally – by bringing in a lawyer (particularly a civilian lawyer), or the FSC, or his Congressman – is not going to endear Charlie to the CO. Quite the opposite.
Kevin’s advice (not knowing any more about the case than we do) is to enlist the help of the CMC, the Chaplain, and Charlie’s Division Officer. If Charlie can convince these three individuals that the marriage isn’t going to injure the Navy in any way then it’s pretty unlikely that the CO will continue to oppose it. If having them intercede personally doesn’t help, Charlie is within his rights to request a Captain’s Mast and try to convince the CO formally, with witnesses to back him up. Unless there’s a lot more to the story than we’re hearing, it’s unlikely to go that far.
Please thank Kevin for me, Jess.
Even the possiblility that the only real problem is that the wedding was scheduled for a time that the ship would be abroad (it was) is good news to me.
Oh, the reason that I think that might have been it, is that when he was denied, he didn’t know that they would be shipping out, but he has since learned of it.
Well sir, experience-wise, I’d put my 23 years up against your five any time. The FSC, the JAG and the other resources are there for the benefit of the sailor and they use discretion when dealing with the problems presented to them. The CMC is going to back the CO’s policies, more than likely, and it doesn’t hurt for the sailor to actually get the facts about his rights, rather than taking second-hand recommendations from this peanut gallery, or from shipmates who will probably give him even worse advice. He doesn’t have to announce to everyone that he is talking to others, but an informed sailor is far better than one who is not.
Now, I don’t know where the mention of a congressman came from, but yes, that is a very bad idea unless one is a witness to gross malfeasance or criminal activities. A congressional request requires an answer within 24 hours, IIRC, and would not endear him to anyone.
