you are correct, we do use some judo throws in our techniques, but we are more heavily influenced by the striking arts.
For those who do not know Kajukembo is a blend of Korean Karate, Judo, Ju-Jitsu, Kempo, and Kung-Fu. It was created mutually by masters of each art sharing with each other to create an effective street defense art.
And, yes if you are slightly out of position it makes the judo techniques difficult.
lol, hi Paul. See you at class on Saturday.
If they are anything like Jujitsu which spawned the style then you aren’t supposed to be trying to fit your position to the technique, but you choose your move based on the position.
I’m not sure I buy Evil Economist’s view that learning more subtle and deadly techniques are a complete waste of time, but outside of that he has a point.
I have a pretty decent knowledge of myology and kinesiology, and so does my Jujitsu instructor, and that is quite useful in the training of the moves. There are subtleties regarding removing their leverage by pulling the muscle out of position that are useful. Hard to pull off certainly, but every effective if you do pull them off. Take the muscle off it’s track on the bone and it can’t get leverage, over-stretch it and you activate the golgi tendon reflex. Push the neck back 45 degrees and they are going to go down automatically because of the cervical reflex. That stuff is useful.
No, not Paul. 
My name’s Britt, I’m under Sigung Cox in Abilene. If you’re at the seminar when Professor Agustin Lopez comes over from Spain in a few months we might meet.
oh, wow, sorry. Your history matches up almost exactly with his. I will be there. It is set for Aug 15th. In other news, Jeff Duncan got promoted to third degree today. So congrats to him.
Looking forward to meeting you there. My name is Bryan
That’s a pity; I’ve always felt that the grappling/throwing arts were more effective than the striking arts:
[ol]
[li]The bad guys are better at striking than you. Back in the day when I wanted to be the greatest martial artist in the world I spent 2 years training boxing. I don’t mean to sound classist, but some of the other students at the gym were the sort of people I’d be worried about mugging me, and they were all better at boxing than me. If it came down to a striking contest, I bet I’d lose. [/li]
Didn’t see any of those people in my judo class though. If you’re Jack Dempsy strike with whoever you want. If you have a job and can’t spend your life training, train throwing and take the bad guys out of their comfort zone.
[li]Striking is a more attribute-driven style than throwing. Good strikers are good because they’re faster, stronger, and tougher than you. Muggers are probably going to be all three. That’s true in throwing as well, but I bet the skill difference would be big enough that my skill would overwhelm my opponents. REmember, the bad guys know boxing; if they don’t train it then theyy’ve watched it and thrown hands in their other fights. But they’ll have no idea what’s happening when you throw them.[/li][li] You’d get hurt striking. The reason the UFC requires gloves is that before fighters wore gloves they were always breaking their hands. Even now in every show I’ve seen, at least one figher will break his hand, despite wearing wraps and gloves. Wouldn’t it suck to fight back for the $15 dollars in your wallet only to spend hundreds of dollars getting your hand fixed? If you throw them face-first into the cement, your knuckles will be fine.[/li]
Also, I’d hate to break the skin of my knuckles punching the sort of person who’s out mugging people. God only knows what sort of diseases they have. I’d rather give up my $15 than catch AIDS. If you throw them that’s not a problem; the street can’t catch herpes.
[li] Hard to finish someone by striking. I remember the first time I got in the ring to spar. I’m a big, strong guy, and I’d spent a couple of months working on my striking on the heavy bags before I got in the ring, and I was sure that when I hit the guy he’d go down. Didn’t happen. I whopped him as hard as I could, and he didn’t even seem to notice it. To be fair, he couldn’t knock me down either. Those movies where you punch a guy in the face and he’s out? Those are lies.[/li]
On the other hand, getting thrown face-first into a sidewalk will take the fight out of anyone. And if you need to choke them, one of my instructors said “if you knock someone out he’ll think you got lucky and come looking for a rematch. If you choke them out they’ll never want to fight you again.” Added bonus; if you choke them out they’ll piss themsleves.
[li] Striking training will give you brain damage. The only way to learn is to get out there and throw leather. Unfortunately those repeated blows to the head are costing you brain cells. On the other hand you can train something like BJJ well into your 90’s and end up the day with the same number of brain cells as when you started.[/li][li] Striking has too much variance. No matter how good you are, you can easily lose to someone who’s worse than you. Mike Tyson in his prime lost to a nobody in Buster Douglas, and no one here is Mike Tyson. Say what you will about BJJ, the better guy almost always wins.[/li]
[/ol]
Of course, there’s also a matter of personal style: I was a brown belt in Kenpo (a very striking-oriented style) before I realized I was much more comfortable with the relatively few throwing/grabbing moves we learned. I’m sure I would have done much better if I had started on judo or some similar art instead, in the first place.
Yes, grappling is much more effective than striking, but knowing how to throw a punch is important.
mswas said:
I did not say that shots weren’t fired. What I said was exactly what you said, they were unprepared to kill. My point was the first gun shot was not through the window, but rather one guy opened the door and the other leaned in to the car. Why? To keep from damaging the car? Getting shot is gonna put a lot of blood all over the interior of the car, and it won’t clean out easily. Plus, it is very likely the bullet will go through the body, which will put holes in the car. So why not blow out the driver’s door window too? That is what I meant by being unprepared. They weren’t ready to act. They expected the guns to do the job just by being present.
As for why they didn’t shoot at the end, after finally getting the upper hand? Hard to say. Could be they really weren’t mentally prepared to kill. The first gunshot was something of a heat of the moment, in the midst of struggle event, but the cold-blooded trigger pull at the end was too much. Or it could be other reasons listed.
As for the original question, the boy wasn’t expecting 3 weeks of training to be everything he needed. Rather, he appeared to be trying to decide if it was worth it for him to be putting in the effort. If he could train for 5 years of an hour a day and still never get to where the karate would be useful in a self-defense situation, then regardless of any other benefits of the training, it wasn’t accomplishing the thing he (and a lot of people) thinks it should - help with self defense. So why take 5 years to learn that lesson?
Regarding striking vs grappling, I train primarily striking. However, it is very likely in any brawl type situation that the fight will turn into a grappling match. Person A grabs person B in a bear hug and falls over, both go to ground. Whatever. Being good on your feet to avoid grabs is useful, but not 100% effective. I know a guy who used to train Akido, then took up Jui-Jitsu for the grappling. He demonstrated the value to himself by surprising his Akido instructer with a grab and throw from behind. The Akido guy was on the ground before he could do anything. If he’d seen the attack coming, there were a lot of ways he could have avoided the throw.
Again, what are you training for? It doesn’t matter how bulky your muscles, how well you can take a punch, a kick to the knee is going to make it hard to stand. Jab to the eyes, strike the nose, kick the knee, then get away.
Everyone seems to be down on striking. I seriously do not understand this. You need to keep in mind that I am not talking about squaring off with someone and going head to head with fists. That is how you break your hand, or worse, give them the advantage. You train to pick your targets that will cause the most damage to them quickly. Throat, balls, knees, temple, just inside the shoulder, the collar bone, the floating rib, etc.
The first thing I am going to do if someone is trying to attack me is move out of their center line, kick them in the nuts and strike the first soft target that presents itself after that. No one expects to get kicked in the nuts. This will obviously vary depending on how they are attacking me, what they are attacking me with, and how many attackers there are. Also, chances are that no matter what you do you will be injured in some way if you are attacked. That is just the nature of fighting.
You also need to keep in mind that size does not equal strength or power in martial arts. Speed, fluidity, training, calmness, and staying relaxed is where power is generated. A small relaxed fighter will hit harder and faster than a large tense fighter every time.
IME, guys (and girls) are very quick to react in defense of a strike to the crotch area, training or no.
It’s actually fairly easy to defend against a foot or ankle striking for the crotch - it’s easy to catch it in the thighs if you bring your knees together while the foot is going up. I’ve done it myself to save myself getting kicked there - the instinct to defend shifts in to gear and those knees come together, usually to one side or another.
I’ve used it to trap attacker’s feet before and then to grab their leg and gain control over the fight.
A stomp to the top of the foot, the shin, or the knee are bound to be more effective than a kick to the groin … in my experience.
Explain this fight then.
Dude could lay blows on the other guy whenever he wanted. By the end of the round it was casual, he could just swing and hit.
To understand this fight you should know that the big guy is 365 lbs of uncoordinated muscle who was a toughman freakshow before moving to Japan and getting a following. In a fair world Sapp would never win a fight, especially against Ernesto “Mr Perfect” Hoost. Unfortunately, the world isn’t fair, and in the real world you can win fights just by being big.
Or, just by being trained.
No, the point is that the big guy has no skills at all, and he knocked out one of the most skilled martial artists in the world. kajuroe said that “size does not equal strength or power in martial arts. Speed, fluidity, training, calmness, and staying relaxed is where power is generated. A small relaxed fighter will hit harder and faster than a large tense fighter every time.” But look at the video. The big guy is tense, slow, and awkward, but he’s 365 lbs of muscle, so he wins the fight. His opponent is Ernesto Hoost, at the time the world champion heavyweight kickboxer. Just making the point that if you get into a striking contest you could lose, regardless of how much training you have.
That’s what I meant. Had the two been of equal size, the trained guy would surely have won.
BTW; Hoost didn’t seem to be doing much in the defense department. He was doing much of the “no no” stuff I learned about in boxing. Especially when fighting a hard hitter. But I’m far from expert.
Yeah, from everything I’ve learned, crotch shots are most effective as feints, because almost everyone will almost always react to an attack to the groin, leaving you an opening somewhere else.
Unless you feint a punch, and then kick 'em in the nut-sack. Even conditioned fighters in an MMA bout, who are wearing a protective cup(I assume.) will still double over from a crotch-kick, so its effectiveness shouldn’t be in doubt.
kajuroe said:
Nonsense. Everyone expects to get kicked in the nuts. Unless you’re in a boxing match, where that’s not a legal target. But street fights aren’t known for rules.