No matter what, wouldn’t Zimmerman have to get out of his vehicle and let the police cars in? This is a gated community. You normally need a pass card to get in.
They seem to have gotten in okie-dokie on their own, so I kind of doubt it. Besides, I don’t think it’s an according-to-Hoyle gated community anyway. More of a sub-division.
you with the face, that’s some compelling speculation re Zimmerman’s emphasis on Martin’s arms. If he had just mentioned it in passing, I could chalk it up to him being confused or misremembering a minor detail. But he was so adamant. And I’ve noticed none of his defenders have talked about this crazy discrepancy.
Let me anticipate their response:
“How do you know that Trayvon didn’t tuck his arms underneath him after Zimmerman had pinned them back, uh? He coulda still been alive! Crazy arm movements upon death are a side effect of rage-ahol mixed with THC! Why would Zimmerman, this noble gentleman of good citizenship and responsibility, lie about such a thing!?”
don’t know, doesn’t matter. If someone’s wailing on your face you can’t freeze frame it like the movie Matrix and bite their hand.
OK, was Martin wailing on Zimmerman’s face?
2 black eyes and a broken nose.
So you are saying that happened after Martin was on top of Zimmerman?
We’re done.
What’s the matter, don’t like where the discussion is leading? 
I’m not sure of how that is relevant to anything.
I have, and have also read a lot more than just SDMB threads about this issue.
Not committing a criminal act is the key, here. You said:
It totally DOES matter who started the fight, and why. You seem to have read about the law, but you completely fail to comprehend it.
I don’t find the actual law nearly as ridiculous as your inept attempt to interpret/twist it.
No. Just no, dude. Though, it’s laughable that you think that, and are trying to tell me (a gun-owning resident of Florida, BTW) to read up on the law. NO WONDER you can’t even acknowledge credible scenarios where GZ would be guilty for TM’s death - you think an armed robber has the legal right to kill his victim if they dare to counter offensive deadly force with defensive deadly force. The person who initiated the attack, and who was in the act of committing a felony, has no right of self-defense. That right belongs solely to the person who was attacked and who wasn’t committing a crime. I can’t believe I even have to explain this simple fact to you - you don’t even need to be a legal expert to grasp this, it’s common friggin’ sense, not to mention common law.
I still don’t know how you think this is at all relevant, but ok, as I previously amended my hypothetical, suppose that the clerk did shoot to kill, but was unsuccessful. You think his lack of shooting skill somehow excuses his attacker just because he’s a better shot?
You’ve gone over the deep-end, dude. But thanks again for finally making your position clear.
This is, and remains, false, and will continue to be false no matter how many times you assert it. You proved you cant read for comprehension when you misinterpreted my post. The part you bolded refers to the Stand Your Ground law, which removes the requirement to escape for those not committing a crime. Those that are still have the right to defend themselves if they cannot escape.
You don’t like this, and you live in Florida? Congratulations - you can do something about it. Spreading misinformation on message boards is not, however, that thing.
I should point out that I’m not saying I think the law is sensible, or morally correct, or indeed anything about it. That’s all irrelevant to this case. If you want to start a thread discussing what self defence laws should be, go for it. I may well participate. Just don’t think that anything you dream up there will be relevant to this case.
If his defenders aren’t bothered by
- his claim about leaving his car only to look for a street sign (on the same street he lived on…this can’t be repeated enough)
- his claim that M circled his car three times before running off
- his claim that he reached for his phone, not his gun, when he encountered M
- the absence of defensive wounds on Martin’s body
- the absence of Z’s blood or DNA anywhere on Martin’s hands
- the paucity of Z’s blood anywhere on Martin’s clothes
- the absurdly minor wounds on Z’s head relative to his claim about having his head slammed a dozen times
- the lack any horizontal marks on Z’s head indicative of coming in contact with the edge of a sidewalk
- the shitload of discrepancies between his reenactment and the dispatcher tape
- the front to back trajectory of the bullet that belies the idea Martin was leaning over or sitting on Zimmerman when he was shot
- and much much more…
…then they aren’t going to care that Z made this slip up about Martin’s arms. They are too far deep in the koolaide to even notice that.
If the person puts their hand over your mouth first, it would be much easier to bite that hand. Iirc, GZ recollected that TM put TM’s hand over GZ’s mouth. And that TM said something to the effect of “Shut the fuck up,” and “You’re gonna die tonight,” more or less.
All the while, through the punching, the falling, the head bashing, more punching, the covering of the nose and mouth, through all of that GZ’s hands and arms did not happen to block a blow, be nicked by a fingernail, be bruised by being grabbed or held, or otherwise show any indication that GZ used them.
Through all of that TM’s hands were virtually unscathed save an abrasion 1/32 in^2. Through all of that, no bruising, no scratches, or other signs of having been in a struggle, beside the bullet, on the rest of TM’s body were noted.
There’s not much physical evidence that TM was involved in the kind of altercation that GZ said TM was involved in.
I said it once & I’ll say it again. What a bunch of racists MFs and/or gun-nuts lie under the mantle of the so-called smartest board on the internet.
Also a total waste of time trying to reason with them. Minds like steel traps, nothing ever gets our after the initial “catch”…even if as in this case there’s nothing TO catch. 'cept the tragic death of a teenager for being born black.
Fuck it. Long live racism & guns.
USA #1!
Gag.
The prosecution doesn’t need any audio experts for the jury to decide who was screaming that night. All they need to do is play the 911 tape and then play Zimmerman’s reenactment screams. The difference between the two is like night and day.
Of course, we can add this to the growing list of things Zimmerman defenders will ignore/excuse/deny.
Ah the famous take your ball and go home defense
I wish they had included the visuals, because it’s difficult to figure out what part of the repetition is Zimmerman’s simulation and which is the “loop”.
But if I were trying to reconstruct how my screams should have sounded, after having given an account like Zimmerman’s, I would produce something very much like the recreation. Staccato screams as if punctuated by punches or slamming. Very unlike what was on the 911 call. Indeed, I can’t imagine how the two could be any more different, apart from one of them being bird chirping.
Your link goes to some music interview. Linking to the Sentinel is pretty useless anyway since they put up the paywall. The important articles usually get reprinted in other papers anyway.
When I listened to it, I didn’t even notice he was pausing in between to represent the head slams or punches or whatever, but you’re right monstro. He was trying to make the yell fit with his version of events. The problem is, the yell on that tape doesn’t fit with his version of events precisely because there are no staccato moments.
Notice how Zimmerman’s says “help me” over and over again? Like you, I don’t know if they looped that either, but what’s telling is his phraseology and the shortness of his vowel sounds. The voice on that tape screamed HALLLLP! It was a frantic, desperate, one-word plea. Not a controlled “help me” said in a manner that might be closer to impatience than panic.
I’m by no means a shrink, but Zimmerman has a flat affect when he speaks. Very little inflection in his voice. Not very expressive. Very controlled and clinical. Flat. I don’t think he’d be capable of screaming like the voice on that tape because to do so would require either feeling or relating to certain emotions that are outside his grasp.
This is why he’s able to lie so shamelessly, without showing stress. This is why his vitals were all within normal range minutes after he supposedly was in the fight of his life. And this is why he was able to kill Martin in the first place. I strongly believe he is a sociopath.
Joel, just scroll down and look for the video labeled reenactment. If you truly interested in hearing it, you’ll figure out how to find it.
I click on it but the subscription window still pops over that. Are you talking about the same reenactment video that everyone else is using? I don’t know where you get the notion that he was trying to reproduce the sounds he made that night. He was just talking in a normal conversational voice.
If you actually want people to use your links, then don’t link to the Orlando Sentinel. I stopped linking to them after they put up the pay wall. There is no point to linking to articles that other people can’t read.
If you are talking about Voice Exemplar March 22 2012 file. You can get that here:
http://soundcloud.com/producermatthew/state-v-zimmerman-voice
If he is trying to reproduce the sounds from that night, then he isn’t doing very well. I can’t hear any intelligible words at all in the 911 recording. I can hear him shouting help on this recording. Of course if I tried to reproduce the sounds I made when I woke up and there was a rat sitting on my bed, I would probably fail also.