Sorry, but it is already in evidence. I personally favored a small of the back holster myself because it took him so long to get his pistol out. We already had a long discussion about this in this thread and it turned out I was wrong.
You’re fighting with someone, right? You’re straddling the guy and decide you’re going to suffocate him, just to teach him a lesson. You just broke the creep’s nose, so there’s some blood on his face. Almost half of his face is covered in blood. And he’s screaming–mouth wide open. No bother, though. You are too angry to be grossed out by juices.
So you’ve got one hand on his nose and one hand over his mouth. He’s screaming his little fool mouth off, yes he is. And squirming his little body too. Ooh boy. This is so much fun.
Question:
How likely is it that you will turn up with not a single drop of your opponent’s blood or DNA on your hands?
There was no street sign at the bend in the street. He was heading over to the house on the other side to get the address on the street he knew the name of. It was parallel to where his truck was and would have given the police an exact address to drive to. You can hear him struggle to give physical directions.
Cite?
And???
Which woudn’t exist if he wasn’t able to defend himself which is the what happens when someone is on top pounding the crap out of you.
Most of the blood came from the back of his head. There is no indication of large amounts of blood from his nose.
And???
When did Zimmerman say his head was slammed a dozen times?
Who said his head struck the corner edge? It’s not physically possible unless the sidewalk sticks way up like a curb.
Tell me what you ate for lunch today and exactly how you ate it.
People have been known to bend their wrists which means the gun can be at any angle in relation to his body when it goes off. All that matters to the story is proximity and general direction.
Monstro’s question remains.
Answer
How likely is someone with a broken nose, 2 black eyes, and head injuries NOT to have been hit by the person in question? You have to prove that the nose was bleeding during the assault in an attempt to prove the other injuries didn’t occur.
It’s a pointless argument.
It’s only pointless to someone who is not looking at Zimmerman’s account with a healthy dose of skepticism.
I can believe that Martin landed a good punch to Zimmerman’s face.
I can believe that Martin straddled Zimmerman.
But I cannot suspend my disbelief enough to swallow a tale involving Martin’s hands punching, slamming, and smothering Zimmerman’s face and coming back squeaky clean. Telling me I have to belief this shit is like telling me I have to believe five-headed aliens dropped down from a space ship and shot Trayvon Martin.
It’s too much to believe. It’s entirely too much WTF!
no, I don’t see it at all. Do you think he was a static display through the whole thing?
OK. Explain the injuries documented by the police, EMT’s, photographs taken by the police and other people and a doctor’s report other than Martin’s assault.
Tell me, monstro, what do you think Martin’s hands were doing for 40 seconds during the fight while Martin was straddling Zimmerman? I will be waiting patiently as well.
Answer my question first, please. Explain how it’s possible for a 17-year-old to punch, slam, and smother someone whose mouth is wide open and nose is bleeding and not take away any forensic evidence from it.
I am patiently waiting.
He could have been pinning Zimmerman’s arms, or at least trying to. “John” mentions this as a possibility.
Beyond that, I have no idea. I’m already granting that the kid could have punched him. So if you are claiming that I think Trayvon was a civil disobedient, you are beating a strawman.
I’d like for you to answer my first question and then another one: What do you think Zimmerman doing with his hands while Martin was allegedly punching, slamming, and smothering him?
When you punch someone, breaking his nose, then jump on him when he falls down, straddle him, pinning his arms, supposedly - would you consider that an attack? And do you think the person lying on the ground, with nose broken, blood on his face (if that’s when it started flowing) being attacked can reasonably fear for his life or grave bodily harm? Answer the question in theoretical, regardless of what Zimmerman said.
If I’m just minding my own business and out of the blue, someone tackles me to the ground, punches me in the face, and mounts me for God-knows-what purpose? Yes, I will be in fear for my life.
But this is not what happened that night. It isn’t even what Zimmerman claimed happened, so I don’t know what point you think you are making. If the story was as simple as this, the case wouldn’t be a case at all because the story is believable without doing any contortions. There would be no reason to be suspicious.
If you are going to sit there and say that you believe everything happened exactly like George Zimmerman says it did, you are basically communicating to me that you have no common sense. Noting the lack of unassailable proof that it happened any other way is one thing. But not having the tiniest bit of doubt about Zimmerman’s credibility? Something’s seriously wrong when we can’t agree that something is WTF! when it really is WTF!!
Now are you going to answer my question? Or can I just assume you don’t care enough to seriously think about this man’s claim?
Do you have any cite that they took any Swabs from Martin’s hands?
This report only mentions taking samples from under his fingernails.
http://princss6.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/blood-evidence.pdf
I looked at the lab reports and they took 4 swabs from Zimmerman’s gun and only finger nail scrapings from Martin’s hands.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-documents.html
Any obvious bloods stains would have been washed away while the body was laying in the rain or they would have tested them or maybe they were just sloppy.
Please explain to me how whether you minded your own business or not changes your perception of whether at the time that you’re lying knocked on the ground, nose broken, blood on your face, being straddled by someone who is pinning you down - whether at that time you’re fearing for your life or not? You mean if you didn’t “mind your business” before the attack on you, then you would not fear for your life, but if you did “mind your business” you would? Is that what you’re claiming? I am just trying to get your train of thought here.
I noticed you never answered my questions, Terr. Neither has Magiver. Can’t say I’m really surprised.
Joel, I’m finding it hard to believe they didn’t swab the kid’s hands. They examined both sets of clothes and scrubbed down all the objects being held as evidence. Doesn’t make sense to me that they would go through all of that work, including snooping up under his finger nails, but simply shrug off the hands. If someone with experience in crime investigations weighs in and convinces me otherwise, I’ll concede the point. Until then, it will continue to be a major WTF!
Also, it is my understanding that the rain that night was light, not a heavy downpour. The police were on the scene very quickly. It would be very sloppy indeed for them to allow cloud-spitting to wash away DNA evidence. Especially since you need so little for detection.
While trying to learn more about the kinds of evidence they collected, I stumbled across another message board where they are talking about this case. A lot more vehemently than we are, if you can believe that. There’s some intriguing speculation about why the prosecutor is holding on so tightly to that clubhouse video footage.
To the Pro-Zimmies:
So far you seem untroubled by the lies and holes in Zimmerman’s story. How would learning that he had lied about what he had been doing prior to the 911 call change your feeling about his credibility?
I disagree with your analysis, you. Especially after having learned that Zimmerman was being treated for PTSD, in addition to ADHD (which I have long suspected).
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/03/27/friend-defends-george-zimmerman
PTSD can flatten one’s affect, as can the kinds of drugs he was taking. I believe he might have an impulse disorder, but sociopath is going way too far.
I hate to come across as anti-mental illness, but I REALLY don’t understand how someone who has PTSD would think it’s wise to be Neighborhood Watch guy. And not the peering-through-the-windows-from-the-saftey-of-home kind of Neighborhood Watch guy. But the kind that does foot patrols, putting his ass smackdab in the middle of danger.
Throwing a gun in the mix is just asking for the kind of craziness that went down. That’s already risky business for a healthy individual. But for someone with a serious anxiety disorder and impulse issues? It’s completely irresponsible…no different from drinking and driving, IMHO.
If he did have a personality disorder, I’d almost cut the guy a break. It’s difficult to have insight into your disorder when you have a PD. But he knew he was messed-up. On the video where they give him the stress test , he mentions the drugs he’s on and the fact that he has a psychologist.
Why didn’t they take a blood sample from him right then and there?
I can’t say that I disagree with you on this. Apparently Martin got killed in Mayberry. I think Serino just screwed up this investigation. He had plenty of time to call the medical examiner after he interrogated Zimmerman and have them do the swabs before they even started their investigation. He still had time after he talked to Tracy Martin to get the swabs done before they released the body.
I suspect the Sanford police department knows Serino screwed up.
Does anybody actually believe that isn’t a demotion?
The closest weather station was 3/4 of mile away and reported .22 inches of rain, but about 1/10 of an inch fell between 7 and 8 pm.
http://www.wunderground.com/weatherstation/WXDailyHistory.asp?ID=KFLLAKEM2&month=2&day=26&year=2012
Of course precipitation tends to be very localized, so it could have been much heavier or lighter. It is moot anyway. They didn’t collect the evidence. Unless you are excusing the Sanford PD, it doesn’t matter why.
I did. I pointed out it was a non-question. It’s not up to the defense to explain how blood was or wasn’t on Martin’s hand since the evidence of the assault was recorded so quickly after the event. There’s no other explanation for Zimmerman’s injuries.
It could have been wiped on the grass or Zimmerman’s shirt or there wasn’t any blood from his nose because it didn’t bleed during the 45 to 90 second event. Doesn’t matter.