If Zimmerman is claiming that the screaming stopped at the instant of the shot because he knew then that he was no longer in danger, then Zimmerman’s own statements already disprove that. He claimed that he did not know that he had hit Martin and killed him with the shot, which is why he tried to restrain him afterward and even asked his neighbor for help restraining him. Why would he do any of that if he knew he was no longer in danger?
So that theory doesn’t work, it was not because he knew he was not in danger because he disproves that with his own statement.
Got any other theories why the screaming stopped abruptly the second the shot was fired? Any that are more likely than that the person screaming was the one who was shot, which interrupted the screams, and that don’t conflict with Zimmerman’s statemtents? Keep occam’s razor in mind. The more implausable you get this with, the less likely it is anything but the simplest explanation.
What doesn’t pass the smell test is the idea that moments before Zimmerman shot Martin, he was bawling his head off in agonizing fear, and then immediately after the gun went off, not only was he was quiet and calm (according to witnesses), but he was on top trying to restrain the guy who supposedly had put him in mortal danger.
Fear doesn’t switch on and off like an appliance. After Martin was killed, Z should have been still in panic flight mode. Zimmerman, by his admission, never tried to get away from Martin. Any normal person would have separated from their attacker, not deliberately hugged their bodies against them unnecessarily.
It’s not a theory that the keys were found at the location where it appears the fight started. That would suggest they were in his hands at the time.
So either it was the guy hiding in the grassy knoll who shot Martin and planted the keys to make it look like Zimmerman or Zimmerman retrieved the keys. You can hear the chime again about at the 2:27 mark.
Someone in shock doesn’t behave like Zimmerman behaved. He supposedly was coherent enough to get on top of Martin to restrain him, issue orders to nearby witnesses, inform the cops that he was armed and had yelled for help, have normal pulse and respiratory rate according to the EMT, and remember everything that happened after the shooting well enough to tell the cops about it when he was interviewed.
My god, it is amazing and depressing to see what pathetic depths some people will go to.
This is absolutely laughable. Literally seconds after the shooting - we’re talking *seconds *- you want us to believe that Zimmerman went from animal-like, primal screams of pure terror, to calmly answering a bystander that he used a 9mm to shoot the kid.
Right. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Also, I can’t be alone in thinking that Witness #13 is scumbag who should be mortified and ashamed of his actions.
Shock is a medical term. If Zimmerman had been in shock, the EMTs would have reported it. The police would have noted it. Witnesses would have provided descriptions consistent with it. None of this happened, so unless we want to be ridiculous, we shouldn’t even entertain this idea. If Zimmerman was in shock and it went undiagnosed, then we shouldn’t believe anything that was reported that night.
I don’t even know why the Defenders keep clutching to the screaming. If Martin had been whaling on him the way Zimmerman claims he did, it doesn’t matter who was screaming. Just like it doesn’t matter that Zimmerman was the one who had a gun, not Martin. Just like it doesn’t matter that Zimmerman had all the motive to attack Martin. Just like it doesn’t matter that Martin had the weight disadvantage, not Zimmerman. Just like it doesn’t matter that Zimmerman’s path that night was totally consistent with a guy tracking prey rather than a guy looking for a street sign. Just like it doesn’t matter that Martin had no sign of having viciously attacked anyone. If Zimmerman admits that Martin had been screaming that night, his defenders wouldn’t blink an eye. They would say something about wild animals screaming when they’re about to kill. They would say that Martin screaming no doubt made Zimmerman even more fearful, more justified in pulling out that gun. In other words, they would find a way to make it jibe with the original narrative.
I agree with you that it’s not a theory that the keys were found away from GZ’s truck back behind the houses.
It seems likely that GZ had them.
I do not hear the chimes again after I hear the door shut.
@ about 3:22 GZ says “the keys are in it” while the NEN is talking over him.
So GZ believed as I do that his keys were in the truck at that point in time.
Yet, even though GZ has headed across the block and doesn’t ever make it back to his truck, GZ’s keys are away from his truck and in grass behind the rows of houses.
I can’t help but wonder how they got there.
I suspect that there a part of the story that GZ is omitting where he goes back to his truck and gets the keys.
Gun shots are deafeningly loud and have a way of resetting psychological states. The encounter entered a new phase when Zimmerman went for his gun and fired it.
And, yes, I believe he was in shock. It is a psychological term with complex, and often subtle symptoms- and not necessarily something that an EMT or a police officer would detect much less note at all.
Emotional detachment is one such manifestation of it, which is consistent with his initial lack of response to Mary Cutcher, his “matter of fact” tone (even though that witness was “lead” to say that) .
I understand that many Z-haters are convinced that Zimmerman is a psychopath incapable of human emotions, but that is an even more silly notion to me than the one where Trayvon Martin is held at gun point by Zimmerman, screaming for his life for 2 minutes (while attacking Zimmerman’s head).
There is a reason that the police had little difficulty establishing it was Zimmerman screaming for help. There is a reason they did not entertain the idea that it was a 2 minute struggle over Zimmerman’s gun. It doesn’t make sense.
I don’t believe he would have any reason- or the time- to do so. More likely he took the keys with him and that evidence that he left them in the car is mistaken. I’m not sure he said “the keys are in it”. Is this on the NEN tape?
Zimmerman apparently didn’t even know where Martin was. Martin had taken the picture pin off his hoodie, and shoved the juice can in his pocket, apparently abandoning the plastic bag nearby. This had to have happened before the two met. It’s not irrational to conclude Trayvon was preparing to physically confront Zimmerman. Z was on the phone for about ninety seconds after getting out of his truck. More than enough time to have reached the T and seen Trayvon, if he was there, since Trayvon’s body was found nearby. Zimmerman had no’ motive to attack Martin. He knew help was on the way, and if a cop car was driving nearby, alas it wasn’t, the nearest police cruiser could have arrived before he got off the phone.
If Zimmerman is claiming that he was in acute emotional distress–as signified by screaming and his violent reaction–then you should be able to see physiological evidence of this. Fear is not just in one’s head. It’s actually a very primitive emotion.
If Zimmerman has so much control over his emotions that he can go from fight-or-flight to calm-and-collected instantaneously, he’s capable of a lot of things. Like killing someone in cold blood and concocting a crazy story to cover it up.
The reason why police can’t establish with 100% certainty that Zimmerman was the screamer is because no one can verify who was screaming. That’s all. It has nothing to do with the complexity of Zimmerman’s psyche. If this had happened during daylight hours, there would be no mystery.
The two main pieces of evidence that GZ keys were in his truck are that the door chime only ends when the door is shut. And GZ says that the keys are in the truck
@ about 3:22 GZ says “the keys are in my truck” while the NEN is talking over him.
I wouldn’t characterize his psychological state post-gun going off as “calm-and-collected”, but rather a mental and emotional detachment.
The bottom line on it is that the psychological states of a person over the course of a highly stressful, changing event are complex, individualistic and very difficult to predict.
I think a deafening gun shot- in itself- would be a psychological game-changer. It shocks the brain a bit.
It doesn’t strike me as odd that Zimmerman would stop screaming after the gunshot went off. Nor would it have struck me as particularly odd had he continued to.
The question of who was screaming for help is not a mystery to me. I don’t think it was a mystery to witness 6. I don’t think it was a mystery to the police. And, by the time this trial is finished, I don’t believe it will be a mystery to the jurors.
(Edit: I think there are some manifestations of shock that would be easily recognizable to EMT’s/police)
You are making my point for me. The prosecution can’t prove that Martin wasn’t there to confront Zimmerman, so the advantage goes to the defense. Introducing Dede’s statements actually hurts the prosecution since it makes even less likely that he would be going to talk to someone he is scared of.
Since the NEN is talking over him, it’s hard to know for sure what he’s saying. I could see how it might sound like “the keys are in my truck”, but I don’t think that’s what he’s saying because there would be no reason for him to tell the dispatcher that his keys were in the truck and because the keys were found at the T-section and so apparently weren’t in the truck.
I also can see how it might sound like the alarm does not stop before the door is shut. Maybe the alarm continues for a second or two after the key is removed? Maybe it makes the alarm even if the key isn’t in the ignition? I don’t know for sure, but it seems more likely that there is some explanation besides Zimmerman returning to his truck to retrieve them.
Like I say, I don’t think he even had time to. Whatever the case, it isn’t particularly incriminating to Zimmerman. If he did go back and retrieve his keys after he got off the phone with NEN, that just would have been all the more time that Trayvon Martin had to “flee” from Zimmerman.
Have any of the Zimmerman apostles addressed the “you are going to die tonight” fairy tale, or would acknowledging one of his lies ruin the poor innocent George narrative?
