The broken nose?
I can imagine that being beaten by 142 women would be pretty scary.
Clearly, this is evidence that we should just shoot anyone that looks like they might be approaching us. Self defense!
Magiver is quick to lambast a law abiding youth walking home unarmed and even terms him a “thug.” Yet in the same post he reasons that people should leave the job of apprehending bad guys to the police. If GZ felt, inaccurate as he was, that there was a threat in the neighborhood, he should have let the police handle it.
The biggest issue I have with Zimmerman is not his history of lying and the like. It’s his exceedingly poor judgment that has gotten him arrested and otherwise made his life more difficult. All these excuses - it’s dark, he might have ADD, he feared for his life - are not equally applied to the victim Martin. Anyone with a lick of sense would have followed the instructions from the dispatcher and stayed in their car. Furthermore, if you are taking it upon yourself to patrol your neighborhood, you need to know how to work in concert with LEOs. Finally, if you’re going to insert yourself in fucking stupid situations - let’s recap, you identified a potential threat, it’s dark, raining, and you are in relative safety in your car, AND you freely elect to leave your car - you need to have your head examined.
I’m also curious how someone who takes risks like this doesn’t know self defense. I’ve taken a few courses and I know enough to assess the potential threat and do all I can to avoid a confrontation. Which would mean never leaving my car unless absolutely necessary.
I think GZ picked a fight that he found himself losing, so he pulls out a piece to settle the score. This didn’t take place in GZ’s driveway or near his home. So knowing that he isn’t in immediate physical danger, why insert yourself in a situation?
Zimmerman apologists won’t concede that Martin was justified in fearing for his life after being followed, and what it would indicate if the person following you decides to get out of their vehicle in such adverse conditions. I would presume that person intends to harm me, especially if I’m minding my business and not breaking any laws.
Bottom line, GZ made all of these shitty judgment calls because he had a get out of jail free card - a gun. He could act first, and when he made a critical error, simply fix it by pulling the trigger. I certainly don’t want anybody who thinks so poorly on the streets defending my property or otherwise.
Who was screaming for help?
Just because George says it, hardly makes it an incontrovertible fact.
If it was George, then it makes his case stronger. If, however, (god save us all) it was Martin that was screaming for help - would that change your opinion at all? Did you even consider the outside possibility, as unlikely as it might seem (to you anyway) that it might be the one without a gun that was doing the screaming?
Hear hear on this post.
The thing that keeps coming up again and again in the defence of George -
Trayvon was a thug, he was already behaving in a threatening way when George was in the truck.
But then George got out of the truck and followed him. And according to his defenders, this was a good thing to do, something that didn’t contribute to the situation at all.
And then already being rightly afraid because of Trayvon’s “thuggishness”, after chasing him, can still pull out a gun and shoot him.
It just doesn’t add up. It doesn’t make sense.
Now I would be surprised, but not shocked, to find out that Martin did throw the first punch, that he had waited in the dark to confront George (I don’t think it likely, but hey - stranger things have happened), what I simply cannot comprehend though is the narrative that George is spinning. That he followed someone who had already behaved threateningly towards him, and that he continued down a dark, poorly lit path to “get an address”.
I read through the Hannity interview. George is claiming “dozens” of blows, and having his head repeatedly bashed against the concrete path.
This also does not compute. Trayvon landed “dozens of blows” but has no wounds other than a slight graze on one finger? And after repeated bashings onto concrete only 2 small cuts to George’s head?
No blood on Trayvon at all after holding bleeding head to repeatedly bash it?
The story, as George is telling it simply does not add up. That, more than anything else is making him look guilty. That is why I don’t believe what he is saying, much more so than the possibility than it’s not totally unreasonable to think that had he been in an unprovoked fight he may well have feared for his life.
Zimmerman on TV last night.
Notice how he stops and remembers to throw in the ‘mentored kids’ tidbit. Nice touch.
He says he had never heard of Stand Your Ground, which strikes me as extremely odd and unlikely coming from someone that was taking criminal justice courses and wanted to be a cop or judge.
Initially, George says that he thought Martin was suspicious because he was just ‘stopped, standing in the rain’ looking at the houses, didn’t appear to be exercising etc. Here, he says that Martin was ‘walking leisurely in the rain’. What I don’t get: Martin was by the short-cut used by dozens of kids every day - I’ll bet some of them are even black! - and it’s right by his buddy’s house, so George would know it was often used as a short-cut. He’s driving by - he couldn’t have possibly had enough time to see that Martin was specifically ‘stopped and starting at the houses’. He clearly had to have stopped at the bend on RVC to watch Martin. No wonder Martin went from ‘walking leisurely in a light rain’ while talking to his girlfriend, to ‘stopping and staring’ at the white bald-headed guy in a truck that’s stopped specifically to stare at Martin.
This is interesting:
George thinks Martin was skipping. Skipping. :rolleyes:
And this little tidbit:
[COLOR=#000000]So he’s seriously moving up the timeline - obviously trying to get around the ‘you spent two minutes after hanging up trying to find Martin’. I don’t see how this meshes with the other 911 calls at all.
Says he was punched over a dozen times. Wow. That’s a lot. His face sure looks to be in pretty good shape.
[/COLOR]
So, Martin wasn’t able to hit his head on the concrete anymore. He was trying to shut him up, but George’s hands and arms were completely free. And his nose hurt. Obviously, George had no choice but to blow the kid away.
:rolleyes:
After the shooting:
Really? Terrified? The first bystander there - it was literally seconds after the shooting - says that George looked out of breath but otherwise relatively matter-of-fact. He asked if he had blood on his face. Bystander asks him what gun he used to shoot the kid, George answers, “a 9mm” - quite interesting that George never mentions that little conversation.
The topic of Witness #9 comes up. Neither George nor his lawyer deny the allegations. “She said I wasn’t a racist!”.
And our little Georgie ‘doesn’t regret anything he did that night’.
That’s astounding. Suppose that had been me. Even if I had really, actually, truly felt that I absolutely had to shoot to save my life, how the hell could I not regret following him in my car? How could I not regret getting out of my car? How could I not regret the myriad of judgement calls I made, the whole chain of events that I participated in that resulted in me shooting an unarmed kid?
Trayvon Martin was not a murderous thug hell-bent on raping and pillaging the neighborhood. He was 17yrs old. He was un-armed. To not at least regret not doing something differently that would have resulted in both guys just ending up at home…Zimmerman must honestly believe that he did the right thing by ridding his neighborhood of the hoodie-wearin’, skittles-wieldin’ black thug.
Or he’s a god-fearin’ psycho of shallow emotional maturity and limited capability for taking personal responsbility, because ‘everything is just God’s will’.
I understand now why George, once he realized that he was no longer ‘in danger of having his head banged against concrete’, never bothered to check to see if Martin was alive or not. Never checked to see if he needed help. Never made sure 911 was called. In fact, told someone -not- to call 911, instead, please help me restrain this supine, lifeless body that’s not moving in front of us.
To go on national TV and say he has no regrets? He’s perfectly fine with the chain of events that resulted in a man’s death? He’s worse than pond scum.
The “God’s will” remark is nauseating. That’s shit you just don’t say right after expressing sympathy to the family.
All the thugs in his gang skip; the Strawberry Shortcake Crips.
Cool.
Hey, I have a question that maybe you can help me with: I was at bat watching the pitcher wind up when I remembered an old news story about a batter killed by a wild pitch.
So I shot the fucker. Self-defense, right?
Number of times my nose has been broken in my life: 3. Number of people I’ve shot over it: 0.
These very rare occurrences are supposed to make me fear for my life if i am punched?
I don’t get the point you’re trying to make.
I doubt that there’s anyway to get a count of the number of punched thrown in the reporting area so that we can determine an accurate rate of these fatal single punches. However, I am inclined to believe that the number of punches thrown each day is enough to make these incidents seem astronomically unlikely.
You have a point besides the one I have argued against I assume.
The whole looking for a street sign in the middle of the block thing really sticks out in his story. How fucked up confused would you have to be to think that street signs are in the middle of the block? But that’s just his segue into thinking that he needed an address from the other side of the block to tell the police where he wasn’t.
It is just nonsensical imho. Which isn’t that bad in and of itself; however, it’s kind of a linchpin part of his version of events.
Between that and the unmentioned trip back to get his keys from his truck… I don’t find his story credible. He’s fabricating or confabulating.
This is not what GZ said, afaict.
According to his re-enactment video, he had two purposes when he exited his vehicle.
One he provides in chronological order–the desire to find a street sign in the middle of the block for the street he is on. He walked a few or several steps and then noticed that he coudn’t find a street sign in the middle of the block [no shit, Sherlock]. So then he decided to get an address from the other side of the block where he was not. [wtf, Chuck?]
On his way to get another address, he arrives at a point in space where he looks for M. GZ later tells us that at this point in space, “back there”,is where he had the conversation with NEN about following M. So up until he reached that point in space, GZ was following M–according to his version anyway.
So, going to get an address from the other side of the block is a motivation for him to continue across the block, not for getting out of the vehicle. According to GZ’s version of the story in the re-enactment anyway. AFAICT.
From about 6:24 of this version Zimmerman Re-enacts Shooting For Police | digtriad.com
[INDENT][INDENT]And they said, “Where are you?” And I could not remember the name of the street. Ih’… 'Cause I don’t live on this street. Retreat View Circle goes in a circle.
And I said, “I I c.. I don’t know.”
And he goes, “We need an address.”
And I said, “I don’t know an address.” I think I gave them my address.
And they said, aawuhdeh, “Give us directions toeh get to you.”
And I said, “If you tell the police to go straight at the clubhouse and make a left, my truck will be there.”
And again they asked me where he went and what direction he went in. I said, “I don’t know.”
And then I thought to get out and look for a street sign. So I got out of my car and started walking.
Oh.
I was ss still on the phone with uh non-emergency and I started walking…down this way. And..wu’it 'cause I didn’t see a street sign here, but I knew if I went straight through, that that’s Retreat View Circle. And I could give an address.
'Cause he said, “Just gimme the address of the house that you’re in front of.”
And there’s no address 'cause these are the back of the houses.[/INDENT]
GZ also says that on his way across the block, when reached a certain point in space he looked around for TM. Told NEN that TM was gone. Apparently, this is also the “back there” where GZ affirmed to NEN that he was following TM and NEN told GZ that they didn’t need GZ to follow TM.
So until sometime after GZ reached that point in space, he had been following TM. Perhaps until after he told the NEN that TM was gone and the NEN told him that they didn’t need GZ to follow TM.[/INDENT]
That really doesn’t explain the decision to search for a street sign in the middle of the block, imho.
It also leaves the question about why there’s no indication of any of this street sign / address business on the NEN tape.
Irl, what he said gives zero indication that he was going to get an address. It does give us indications of what he was thinking though.
Given what he is recorded as saying at the time, it really seems that GZ had it in his head that he would meet the police at his truck.
There is more evidence in the NEN call to support this theory than the theory that he went to look for a street sign in the middle of the block. For instance, he starts telling NEN how to find his truck before M runs and he continues to tell NEN directions to his truck AFTER he has crossed the block. This evidence suggests that after GZ had crossed the block he had a desire to continue giving the NEN direction to his truck for the purpose of meeting the police there. It’s a part of the conversation about where to meet the police.
obviously, ymmv
What is the time stamp of this part?
Iirc, he does not name the street, but he doesn’t seem to have trouble remembering it, imho. He seems to have trouble describing the fact that the road has a sharp curve to the left in it, imho.
What does he say that makes you think he has trouble remembering the name of the road?
I am not saying that he did remember it, just that the assertion that we can tell that GZ couldn’t remember the name of the street based on evidence in the NEN call doesn’t match my memory of the call.
Can you point to the part where we have an indication that GZ can’t recall the name of the street that runs through the neighborhood?
As futile as this conversation is–any thing offered is necessarily pure speculation as to what a dead person was thinking. The question is a legitimate one to turn over in your head, imho even though there is no persuasive or objectively true answer possible. All there is is pure speculation [and the psychic friends network].
GZ doesn’t place the two of them very far apart when TM starts to run. TM may not have had enough time to run home before GZ could round the corner. If GZ rounded the corner while TM was running to his house, then his house would have been revealed and may not have been a safe place anymore. There’s no indication that TM had a firearm or back up [other than a 13 yr old kid] in that house.
That could easily have led to a decision to hide rather than reveal where his destination was.
I doubt that will satisfy you. But it seems a simple plausible possibility to me.
But, imho, the issue is moot, so w/e.
This is factually incorrect.
GZ gave the number and street for the clubhouse and that is all.
He got out of the truck to look for a street sign in the middle of the block & to follow M.
If it were Martin screaming for help it would certainly change my opinion. I’ve considered that possibility but, like former lead Investigator Serino, concluded that it was Zimmerman screaming for help. That it was Trayvon screaming for help is balderdash.
Trayvon was out of sight- he thought he had taken off. How was he to know that Trayvon was either waiting in ambush or saw Zimmerman walked across the walkway and doubled-back to give him a knuckle sandwich?
He didn’t “chase” him. He tried to keep an eye on him. The young ruffian attacked Mr. Zimmerman without relent until Zimmerman was left with no choice but to defend himself.
Oh sure it does.
After the young ruffian’s unsuccessful efforts to intimidate Mr. Zimmerman, he appeared to flee the vicinity. Believing this to be true, Mr. Zimmerman exited his vehicle to find out where he had gone. This brought him several seconds away from a street he knew the name of. So he walked a little bit further to get an address on it.
Especially in the midst of a beat-down, it is not always easy to give a precise account of what happened. I’m not overly familiar with the forensic report, but my understanding is that Trayvon at least had George’s blood on his sleeves. It’s also possible that Trayvon’s fingers would have been bruised had he lived long enough for them to form. And if Trayvon didn’t beat up George, then who did?
[QUOTE]
The story, as George is telling it simply does not add up. That, more than anything else is making him look guilty. That is why I don’t believe what he is saying, much more so than the possibility than it’s not totally unreasonable to think that had he been in an unprovoked fight he may well have feared for his life.[/QUOTE
Witness accounts always have flaws and seeming contradictions. Every witness account in this case is full of them. The more times they give an account the more seeming contradictions. It’s just the way it goes.
Investigator Serino knew this, which is why, even though he questioned some of the seeming contradictions, he did not ultimately make an issue of them. Instead, he said Zimmerman should have stayed in his car and identified himself. (Which is easy to say in hindsight.)