Yes, he claims this. And he doesn’t shoot Martin for this and there are no signs he struck Martin.
Yes dimmy that’s what is being claimed by Zimmerman. The fight is not a static event. It consists of Martin striking Zimmerman and Zimmerman trying to avoid physical damage. He talks about squirming off the concrete in the video. There are grass stains on his clothes. His story is consistent with the evidence.
According to FLA law, GZ only had to reasonably believe that he was in imminent danger of death or serious physical harm before he could resort to lethal force TO DEFEND HIS OWN LIFE.
TM was beating GZ. GZ believed he was in imminent danger of death or serious physical harm. GZ used lethal force to defend himself.
The jury doesn’t have to listen to your opinion of what happened that night either. The jury gets to decide if GZ is guilty of 2nd degree based on the actual evidence present to them. Your opinion(s) won’t be admitted.
Now, if you had evidence or could prove that GZ did not believe that his life was in imminent danger of death or serious physical harm when he fired his weapon, you should get that evidence to the FLA SA ASAP.
Different frame of mind or lack of self defense training? Fight or flight?
Your first thought as you sit behind your keyboard, is to run away. In the real world, that could result in your being shot/stabbed/clubbed/tackled from behind.
Another option is to restrain your attacker at the earliest opportunity. Which is what GZ seems to have attempted.
I never said turn and run. If permitting classes in Florida are anything like here, they recommend against re-engaging with your assailant once separation has been achieved. Call 911. And keep an eye on the assailant.
Your suggestion is that the possessor of a gun should Pursue and close distance with an assailant possessing a possible unknown weapon? I’m no expert, but that sounds like a recipe for losing tactical advantage.
I was addressing Steophan specifically, not anybody who’s reading.
That’s true, and some people I might tire of trying to convince. You could be one of them.
Is this weapon known for being so unreliable? Are there any associated problems with this gun that might require any part of it to be given a knock or 2, say for the magazine or clip, w/e, to sit properly?
You can repeat it for another 600 posts but it doesn’t make it any truer.
Which raises the perplexing question of “wtf was Z doing with his hands for the duration he was on the ground prior to suddenly becoming incredibly focused and thwarting his murderous attacker in a matter of a few seconds?” It’s interesting how Z can’t remember a thing of how Trayvon managed to get on top of him so easily. It’s my belief that he remembers perfectly well and that they fell while they were both involved in a standing struggle, but Z can’t admit to that, so it’s time for a trusty “I don’t remember!”
If you’ve ever played on wet grass and been told off by your mum for getting grass stains in your clothing, you should know that if Z really had been fighting to get his mounted attacker off him, and the person above him was bearing down with his weight, there would be significant marks at the area of TM’s trousers where his knees were pressing into the soft ground. Show me those marks on TM’s trousers and I’ll happily concede he was on Z and trying to keep him down, as opposed to being held onto by Z and trying to get up.
Zimmerman thwarted Martin by shooting him, and there is no indication that Zimmerman was any more or less focused then than earlier in the fight.
Regards,
Shodan
Gee I don’t know, maybe Martin’s mum told him to kneel on his opponents arms while beating him to keep his clothes clean or he was squatting on his feet as Zimmerman mime’s in his re-enactment. Don’t know. I do know that Zimmerman had grass stains on his jacket that matches his account.
Yes, you have quite the belief system absent any evidence. That’s been your entire argument. You believe stuff happened yet you can’t back it up.
This is easily countered with the knowledge that Zimmerman has training, unlike the shocked “I didn’t want to but I had to” movie character, who throws the gun to the ground in a disgusted motion as if it was covered in pee.
He’d already shouted for help, and the noise of the scuffle surely attracted nearby persons, so why should he shout again or leave Martin’s body to go find assistance -especially if he’s got a cell phone with him?
Not sure it points to a definitive line on Zimmerman’s intentions, but detaining Martin as a brief thought that crossed Zimmerman’s mind and actually taking physical steps towards detaining Martin are two different things.
If we accept that Zimmerman stopped following him by the phone call evidence, then it’s a moot point.
Are you the one who says that no reasonable person could possibly think that Z did anything but walk–he did not ever increase his speed of travel by foot?
I forget who is who sometimes. Sorry.
I think Bricker’s point stands in that jurors could reach the same conclusions that many other people have reached–namely that Z continued to look for M. [Use w/e words you find PC]
Jurors could also reach the conclusions that other people have also reached that when Z tells the NEN about M reaching in his waistband and when Z says that he thought M was hitting Z with a weapon are evidence that Z thought M could have been armed.
You’re welcome to reach w/e conclusions you like, but the point is that reasonable jurors could easily reach different conclusions than you.
Of course, I may be wrong.
The fact that Zimmerman had training * hurts *his case. It means he had full knowledge of proper conduct while carrying a weapon, but he acted contrary to that knowledge. It’s dangerous and reckless to pursue a potential criminal in your truck and then on foot, and it definitely dangerous and reckless to that do while carrying a loaded gun. The man might have had training but he was not law enforcement.
Oh, so you might say to that, well he might have forget all of this knowledge. Maybe his ADHD made his lose sight of this during the stress of the night. Okay very well, but all that means is that he should not be trusted with concealed guns. We already know his claim about forgetting that he was carrying a loaded gun on his hip. That aint an excuse though; its actually an admission that he is too irresponsible to carry a gun. Certainly CCW training emphasizes being mindful at all times if you have a lethal weapon in your possession, because its a safety hazard if you don’t.
Furthermore, tell me what training course teaches its students that, after shooting someone in self-defense, putting your gun away and then attempting to restrain the assailant is the appropriate next step to take? And not only that. Putting your gun away and restraining them even while doubting you actually injured them? There is no instructor in the world who would advocate this action.
Either Zimmmerman was trained by a sadistic idiot, or he’s one.
Why in the hell would we accept that?
If you continue to pound someone’s head on the ground, it’s logical to assume that death will eventually result.
If you have an effect, there has to be a way to falsify it. If the sound of wind whistling past a cell phone is indicative of movement, than it’s absence has to be the opposite. If heavy breathing is indicative of moving, itt’s absence has to be the opposite. If you can’t prove or disprove something, Angela Corey shouldn’t use the claim that Zimmerman’s heavy breathing and wind whistling past the cellphone proves that Zimmerman was moving in the same direction as Trayvon Martin. Being professionals, The SPD certainly must have noted this, and they couldn’t arrest Zimmerman without more evidence
no
The entire point of the phone call and visual track of Martin is a reasonable conclusion. That it would lead to shooting him is not a reasonable conclusion. There is no indication he wanted to confront him. The evidence shows the opposite. He did not get out of his car.
They could. It appears that Zimmerman talks about an object in Martin’s hand when he was struck which is why he got on top of Martin after shooting him. He did not place himself in close proximity of Martin at any time prior to the fight which started with Martin approaching him. There is no evidence that Zimmerman sought a confrontation so a conviction of Manslaughter becomes one of the probability of that event.
Bricker is talking about Manslaughter so the requirements to convict are different.
If i;m allowed to gived a plug, the December issue of Esquire has an interview with the Martin family. There’s not much new that hasn’t been known before. The family is still vague as to why Martin was suspended. But they do admit he wasn’t about to graduate soon , because Trayvon failed his FCAT test. If you don’t pass, you don’t graduate. Didn’t they earlier claim he was an honor student?
It’s hilarious that you think his reenactment was an accurate representation of his actual experiences. Z squatted on his feet because he didn’t want to risk getting his slacks dirty by really giving the watching detectives a proper idea of what had happened. Hey, it’s only a reenactment, let people use their imagination.
Seen the photographs clearly illustrating where his shoulders and back had been pressed forcefully against a wet, grassy surface, have you, or are you relying on Officer Smith’s highly professional assessment?
Look, you can’t even absorb a simple little fact clearly stated by Z in a far from lengthy interview, so don’t be criticising the basis for my arguments.
His life has already been wrote off, so go ahead and write off his parents hopes and dreams for their dead son and make them out to be lying opportunists, why don’t you?