The part where carrying a gun and following someone is neither immoral, illegal, threatening, or psychotic. The part where one has no right to attack someone for doing so.
The part where it’s wrong to punish someone who’s done nothing illegal.
Why? He had only his vague suspicions that TM had done anything worthy of further attention. What Z should have done is continue to fucking Target and mind his own business for a change, and TM would have got home incident free.
Don’t forget the next bit:- Z: “to the back entrance…”
So, he had a good idea which direction his Target was heading, had no real important need to know exactly where he was, but instead of continuing to stalk TM in his vehicle, he just has to get out of it to provide an unnecessary address.
See above.
No, there isn’t. He was heading home from the shops. Z put himself within Trayvon’s world, not the other way round.
Only if you want to interpret “by his house” literally.
“right by his house”. Kinda hard to interpret this as being far away from the house.
But it wasn’t his duty to follow anyone. It wasn’t his duty to pursue the kid in his truck and then on foot.
Too bad, too sad. It wasn’t his job to follow “the suspect”, and by actively going out of his way to do so, he likely provoked a situation in which Martin–not him–had reasonable fear of serious harm.
It doesn’t even matter if he had officially stopped his pursuit seconds before running into Martin, either. All that would have been apparent to Martin was that the guy who’d previously been skulking behind him in his truck, had now abandoned his truck to go skulking after him on foot. Since by his own admission, Zimmerman didn’t explain his conduct to the kid (didn’t even say he was looking for a street sign), Martin would have had good reason to think he was in danger from this man.
Exactly how far was it from right near his fathers house to the T?
That would help if you could tell me that.
Imho, near could have meant anywhere in the subdivision.
But, you have a more precisely defined sense of what near means, yes?
So let’s start with how far away from green’s place he was when DD heard that from M. Then I can start formulating hypotheses in my ass about how M got from point w/e to point w/e.
Was the T by Green’s house? Was the 7-11 near greens house? Is Green’s yard by her house?
What are the limits of near and far so that we can use them to ascertain the distances and correspond these distances to times?
and feelings don’t negate recklessness, imho.
I wouldn’t say I was “right by the house” while walking if I was more than 20-30 ft away from it. If driving, it would be different.
Here’s a map if you don’t have one.
Actually, Z got out to look for a street sign there in the middle of the block. The address thing came to him later after he failed to find a street sign where there was no intersection.
I’d say it differently.
I think what we need to do is put it to a vote of SDMB members then we can know exactly what M meant.
We must nail down “near” to a number or else the silly line of argument flops like a fish.
There was a well documented crime spree in the area. City officials, including the mayor and chief of police, specifically requested that citizens get involved and report any suspicious activity in their neighborhood.
Trayvon was spotted on private property, at an address where an attempted burglary recently occurred. Martin fit the description of the burglary suspect.
Of course you would.
Compared to where he was when he’d first started chatting with her, it was right by his dad’s.
Just think about it rationally for a moment - is it really conceivable that after him reaching his dad’s front or back door, he would then carry his shopping bag and products back up to where he intended to have a violent confrontation with someone? Or that he wouldn’t nip indoors and get a better weapon than a soft drink can?
Come on, if you’re going to label him a violent thug, don’t insult his intelligence and level of violence potential completely.
And? None of this means it was okay for Zimmerman to go against Neighhood Watch protocol and pursue this kid with a loaded gun.
How did exiting his vehicle ‘provoke a situation?’ According to DeeDee, Trayvon was not even aware that Zimmerman had left his vehicle.
BDLR: On the phone. Did Trayvon ever expand on that? Did he ever say something else about that , now he’s out like that…like, uh…whether the guy had gotten out of the car? Did he ever describe, “Yeah, the guy, now he’s out of the car, he’s chasing me.” I know you said the guy, he said the guy was following him. But did he ever say the guy got out of the car?
Dee Dee: You want that too? [Obviously surprised tone]
BDLR: I want to know the truth whether…did he say that or not? If he didn’t say that, that’s fine. I mean, I don’t, I don’t need to know….
Dee Dee: Like, when he like walking.
BDLR: I know Trayvon is running, right? Or walking…
Dee Dee: Yeah.
BDLR: My question is, did Trayvon ever describe to you, ‘Hey, you know like how if I see a football game, I say yeah, the guy is running fast…or you know, the guy ran to the left…did he ever…
Dee Dee: When he was at the…um…the mail thing
BDLR: Yeah.
Dee Dee: The man was on the phone.
BDLR: Alright.
Dee Dee: That’s what he was telling me.
BDLR: I’m sorry…what, what?
Dee Dee: He was telling me the man was on the phone. He put his hoodie on.
BDLR: Right.
Dee Dee: So, the man was still in the car, then Trayvon started walking, and then he said…I think the man got off by some reason…cause he said…
BDLR: That’s what you believe?
Dee Dee: Yeah…cause he said the man was still following him.
BDLR: OK, so he didn’t say like the man got out…
Dee Dee: Yeah.
BDLR: You just believe that…
Dee Dee: Yeah.
BDLR: …but Trayvon didn’t tell you the man got out…
Dee Dee: Yeah.
If I’ve just travelled a 1,000 miles, 1 mile away from home is “right by.”
Sure. Quite a bit more rational than the contention that Zimmerman stalked and killed him.
Along the same lines, Martin’s cousin didn’t live that far. If he really wanted to fight Zimmerman, why would he be chatting with his gf until end? He should have been callng his cousin and telling him to come down with all of this friends.
SPD neighborhood watch has no such protocol. There is no official weapons policy according to Wendy Dorival (Volunteer Program Coordinator – Sanford Police Department).
During her FDLE interview she does not cite any specific policy, rules or regulations regarding Neighborhood Watch participants carrying weapons. There is no mention of carrying weapons in any of the NHW literature. She stated nobody asked about weapons during the TTL meeting but the question comes up at other NHW and she has a standard answer.
“My advice to them was, you have every right to have any weapon you want, that’s your constitutional right, but just remember that same weapon can be used against you and you don’t know what consequences that weapon will bring to you…that’s my standard answer”
Of course, GZ was not on NHW duty at the time so it does not really apply to this case but I have seen it repeated over and over that it is forbidden to carry weapons as an official policy of NHW. This is apparently not the case, for Sanford at least.
Here’s a question, since you’re treating DeeDee’s account like one of the Gospels.
DeeDee claims she heard Martin say “Get off! Get off!” seconds before the phone went dead.
You should consider this evidence that Zimmerman did something untowards to Martin. I suspect, though, that you don’t.