If they commit felony assault on you, by all means defend yourself from these attackers.
That’s not what i asked.
i will repeat:
Again, what does this have to do with Martin?
So since there are a bunch of white men who molest children in a neighborhood, should I profile and kill a random white guy I see?
There is also a “crime wave” of hispanic men mugging people. Should I profile a random hispanic man and kill him?
Relevance???:dubious:
Again, what does this have to do with Martin?
So since there are a bunch of white men who molest children in a neighborhood, should I profile and kill a random white guy I see?
There is also a “crime wave” of hispanic men mugging people. Should I profile a random hispanic man and kill him?
if…
i’ll look for the link, but a newspaper interview claims that Trayvon Martin’s mother has a cellphone recording of Martin saying that he can’t come to the phone at the present time and to call back later, making you wonder why they didn’t use that to compare it to the voice calling for help. Not that it would have made a lot of difference in a poor recording, but it appears an oversight.
I enjoy watching Zimmerman supporters defend him on the basis of the “crime wave”. It’s an admission that prejudice, fear, and knee-jerk assumptions is what drove Zimmerman to single out Martin. The kid’s only “crime” was looking like Zimmerman’s idea of a criminal, when in truth, he was looking like a kid on his way home from the store.
If I punch someone in the face who brushes against me innocently in the subway, there being there has been a rash of pickpocket theft in the area doesn’t mitigate my conduct. I have still committed assault and battery, the same way I would have if theft wasn’t a problem.
The same applies to Zimmerman. Martin had no control over the “crime wave” and it should not have been his problem to deal with Zimmerman. If Zimmerman would have simply reported his presence to the cops and stayed put like he was trained to do, the kid would still be alive.
I could invoke the Socratic method here and ask you the same question, relevance?
Why are we back on the race aspect again?
EDIT: Love listening to the phone call and the guy says ‘what’s your phone number?’
Really, NEN doesn’t have tower tracking?
If they commit felony assault on you, by all means defend yourself from these attackers.
Watch Z’s reenactment video at the part where he says Trayvon is running. Imagine if T only started running as he turned south down the leg of the T. Let’s say TM was twice as fast as Z, and Z has ran in the direction he claims to have done. By the time Z reaches the T intersection and looks down south, TM should have ran twice the distance Z has.
But somehow, Z can’t see him still running south? Okay, it’s dark - we’ll let him off with that.
Meanwhile, T is continuing to run to BG’s(he’ll be nearly there by now) and Z has gone looking for a useless address.
Remember where we are in the reenactment now? TM’s down at BG’s remember, getting really fired up and telling DD how he’s gonna fuck the crazy dude up, or some such shit.
Meanwhile again, Z has started to walk back to his truck. Now, are you suggesting that Trayvon has sprinted north again, or was he just really that unlucky that his timing brought him right into Z’s path at the time it did?
If Z couldn’t see far enough down to see Trayvon, it’s unlikely that Trayvon could see far enough north to have easily spotted Z, so it’s not like he could have easily kept tracks on Z’s whereabouts.
That’s fine; now show where Zimmerman instigated a physical encounter?
…
…
…
Ok let’s goto lunch early.
Are we saying it’s physically impossible, or just seems unlikely?
Because it’s also unlikely that a person without ill intent, would come back to confront someone.
So either Trayvon didn’t come back, or he had ill intent.
Lack of evidence for one isn’t necessarily support for another and the defense doesn’t have to prove Martin had ill intent.
I am really getting confused…
what does this have with the previous argument that as being made?
The poster made reference to a “crime wave” which gives Zimmerman justification for the actions he took. I am questioning him on this. That’s why I said: “There is also a “crime wave” of hispanic men mugging people. Should I profile a random hispanic man and kill him?”
This is to point out that the reasons Zimmerman gave for doing what he did WAS WRONG.
The same way if Hispanic men were mugging people, it would wrong for me to pick out some random Hispanic guy, follow him and kill him.
THAT’S THE POINT.
To goad or urge forward is the meaning of instigate.
You have several junctures where Zimmerman instigated the encounter.
DeeDee captured part of it when she heard Martin saying “let go” and when she heard the headset disconnect.
I guess Martin used his superhuman abilities to repeatedly circle Zimmerman’s truck, run away and “double back”.
i guess it was Zimmerman who said “let go” and it was Zimmerman screaming for help too.
That Martin was superhuman indeed.
The text you quote does not support this assertion, btw. fyi.
I am aware of many things which I ave not told you. So the fact that M didn’t say that the guy got out of hid vehicle is not at all the same as saying that M was unaware that Z had exited his vehicle.
At least imho anyway. You may take a different view of the relationship between awareness and talking. idk
No, there is another option. He ran just to put a bit of distance between him and Z, but not knowing that Z had got out of his vehicle, he stopped midway down between the first rows of houses(near where he died) and waited to see if Z appeared up at the T end, or from between the cut through ahead of him.
I’m still not convinced Z did approach him from the T intersection and believe the reason his truck was moved so quickly was because it was much further down TTL than he said.
How was Martin supposed to know what Zimmerman was planning on doing when, from the kid’s vantage point, all he saw was a truck creeping behind him and then issuing from that truck, a big fat guy running after him with a flashlight?
You seem to think Zimmerman’s intent would have been obvious to the kid, and thus, the kid should not have moved to defend himself when their distance closed (however that occurred).
But that’s not how it works. Zimmerman has injuries. These injuries could have been the result of an unprovoked attack. OR they could have been the result of Martin defending himself against someone who had good reason to fear. (Or they could have been the result of Zimmerman being a clutz.) Evidence of the latter is found in Zimmerman’s own account(s), the NEN call, and the physical evidence.
-
He followed the kid in his truck, creating a situation that would make a reasonable pedestrian fearful
-
The kid ran around from him as per Zimmerman’s report to the dispatcher, which is evidence the kid was fearful and not trying to start any mess with Zimmerman
-
Zimmerman got out of his truck and admitted to the dispatcher that he was following the kid, which is evidence that Zimmerman was more intent on not letting M get away than he was in acting prudently, safely, and with compassion towards a possibly innocent person.
All of this supports the idea that Zimmerman provoked his own injuries, if we accept the idea that Martin hit him. And even that “if” is a big one. It actually doesn’t matter if Zimmerman only intended to keep an eye on Martin or whether he was trying to overtake him. The former can still put someone in reasonable fear.
I think it’s true, though. I think the reason TM didn’t head straight home is because he didn’t know where Z was going to appear in his car next. I’ve got this sneaky feeling though that Z got ahead of TM and intercepted his path home. I’m pretty sure one of the witnesses who lived further down from where the body was found, said that the commotion passed their home moving north.
yup.
In their minds, there’s nothing wrong with that.
There was nothing wrong with Zimmerman’s use of race to profile Martin, but there is something wrong with people bringing up that he did.
This is the other problem that I have with Zimmerman’s story.
I can’t understand how Zimmerman would have lost sight of him behind the houses. Why would the kid be invisible back there? The headlights from Zimmerman’s truck supposedly were on while Z was on the phone, so there should have been enough illumination for him to see by.
If Martin didn’t know Zimmerman would be crazy enough to exit his truck to chase on foot, then why would he had made the split decision to hide himself? If Martin did know Zimmerman was following him, what would possess him to stop running and then patiently wait (in the rain) for Zimmerman to get off the phone? If Martin ran home, what would be the point of him coming back and confronting Zimmerman empty-handed. (And, like you pointed out, how would he have timed his trip back to the T so that it neatly coincided with the Zimmerman’s phone call.)
All of this is why I’m seriously questioning idea that this was actually Martin that Zimmerman was chasing. I think he was reacting to something (his imagination most likely) when he got out of his vehicle, but I don’t think Martin was anywhere near that area.
But I guess it’s also possible (and quite likely) that Zimmerman tried to head Martin off at the pass by running down RVC and trying to catch him coming at the south end of TTL.
Problem with this (to my eye) is that it still requires Martin to have hung out in the dog path area even after watching Zimmerman dash across the T in fast pursuit. Wouldn’t he have seen this and been worried that he’d eventually be found by this crazy guy?