No.
All Zimmerman has to establish is that he used deadly force in a reasonable effort to prevent imminent death, great bodily harm, or the commission of a “forcible felony,” per § 776.013(1).
On August 26, 2006, John Dorsey attended a keg party.
After exchanging harsh words with other guests, including John Lott and Bo Bunting. Dorsey had his hand in his pocket, and it appeared to witnesses that a confrontation was imminent. One witness claimed that Dorsey was smirking as he was leaning against his vehicle and that he did not appear to be afraid. Lott and Dorsey began cursing at each other. A prosecution witness acknowledged that it looked like Lott was trying to start a fight with the defendant. Bunting, who was trying to encourage the fight, asked Lott whether he was “going to let him [defendant Dorsey] talk to you like that?” At that point, Lott struck the defendant in the face with his fist. The defendant was hit “pretty hard” and fell back against his vehicle.
After the defendant was punched, he quickly pulled out a gun, shot Lott once and shot Bunting once. Lott and Bunting were, at most, two or three feet away from the defendant. Lott died from a single gunshot wound to the chest, and Bunting died from a single gunshot wound to the abdomen. After the shootings, the defendant jumped into his vehicle and drove away.
Although a jury convicted Dorsey of second degree murder, the Florida courts overturned that verdict and said the manslaughter was the appropriate charge:
This language and these facts affirm my earlier analysis. This case cannot (on the known facts) be second degree murder.
What?
[quote=“hmarvin, post:8878, topic:619125”]
Could he have possibly been hiding?
Possibly?
A little bit?
[quote=“betenoire39, post:8886, topic:619125”]
yes he could have been hiding but not at the intersection of the T which is out in the open. Zimmerman is at the T. Martin is not and then he is. Martin has to approach Zimmerman for this to happen.
Fair enough, Bricker.
I will remind you that there might be additional evidence. Some people are pretending that they know definitively that there isn’t.
For instance, the Medical Examiner might have seen something that a lay person reading the autopsy might not pick up.
A ballistics expert can tell us more about who was standing or sitting where when the shot was fired.
I have the feeling (again this is speculation–this is a speculation thread afterall :rolleyes:) that the ME is going to have something interesting to say.
I brought up Martin’s edema and brain injuries and was shot down by the chorus. I personally don’t think all of his brain injuries were cased by the gunshot.
I believe the ballistics expert is going to shed further light on this as well.
Again, my personal opinions.
Shoot away chorus…
[quote=“Magiver, post:8887, topic:619125”]
Zimmerman’s only functioning and lit flashlight was still at the T. Hard to believe he’d be walking around without it. As I pointed out earlier, Z was banging the non functional one on something, heard on the 911 call, and thus not moving. This is how the SPD must have worked things out, and couldn’t arrest Zimmerman. They couldn’t prove Zimmerman was following Martin after the dispatcher suggested he not do that. But they could prove he as standing in one place afterward.
Simple, neither Dennis Baxley nor anyone else connected to creating the Florida SYG has spoken out against Zimmerman. They have said this is simple self defense and not SYG, but no where have I seen it written that they think Zimmerman is guilty of murder.
If I am wrong I expect you will correct me with some facts.
Haven’t been here in a while. Has everybody agreed that Zimmerman is not guilty yet- or are there still some stubborn holdouts? I just got out of jail. Beat the hell out of some black guy who was following me.
There is a snowball’s chance in hell he will be in prison until his early 50’s. I would be shocked if O’Mara would even entertain the idea of a plea. Let me make this simple. There will be no plea. Period. The prosecution will never offer anything that the defense would ever accept, and vice versa. It’s not going to happen.
Nor should it. He did nothing wrong. This whole thing is contrived from misinformation and distortion.
But I agree.. the prosecution is hoping.. PRAYING.. that they can make Zimmerman’s life miserable enough that he’ll accept a plea. He won’t though.
I’m sure O’Mara is quite glad to have Zimmerman as a client. How often do defense attorneys get to defend against angry mobs someone that is actually innocent.
I know exactly how it won’t play out in court: Zimmerman being found guilty of anything beyond manslaughter. My bets are that he wins immunity. If the justice system in Florida has any credibility whatsoever, that’s what should happen. The ONLY thing this case has going for it is the contrived, public “outrage”. Take that away and this case would have been tossed a LONG time ago.
Informed, legal experts know this prosecution was brought by “popular demand”, and not on the merits of the case. Period. End of story. Take that to the bank. This prosecution is an embarrassment to justice, on par with Duke Lacrosse or Tawana Brawley, but worse, because no one has put a stop to it. That will be Judge Nelson’s job to do. I’ve heard she is tough- she will have to ignore the BS from the masses when she does it.
Zimmerman isn’t “stubborn”, he’s right.
This sounds more like a wish list than a list of reasonable expectations.
I suspect that many medical examiners have scanned the autopsy of Trayvon for fun, and if there were some hieroglyphic “bombshell” in there we’d know about it.
You will see the usual suspects continue to make mountains of the molehills that routinely occur in a complex set of events like these. The media will help that along. In the end, let us hope rationality and perspective prevail.
Like Zimmerman, I would love nothing more than there to be a videotape of the entire event. You want to know who doesn’t? The prosecution, Crump, and Trayvon’s parents. Like the lead investigator said, it’s possible that some portion of the event may have been recorded on Trayvon’s phone. They refuse to give up the PIN to that phone. They know nothing good could possibly be on it.
From their perspective, the less information that is known to the public the better. That’s also obviously why the prosecution stonewalled on that picture of George Zimmerman’s broken nose. Funny how it took.. February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September and almost all of October for them to get an incredibly important picture released? First they tried to release a blurry, out-of-focus, absolutely useless facsimile of it. Think that was accidental? I don’t. I no longer give them the benefit of the doubt. That was clearly intentional. They absolutely knew the impact that photo would have. Just as they are stonewalling about Dee Dee’s recordings, and many other things I’m sure.
Accountability. I’m looking forward to accountability for the attorneys involved in this case, as well as the journalists, and other public figures. I’ve never seen something like this before, and I’d love to not ever see something like this happen again.
Sure:
In the FOX piece, this is important:
*
"Quite simply the castle doctrine is a good law which now protects individuals in a majority of states. However, the castle doctrine does not provide protection to individuals who seek to pursue and confront others, as is allegedly the case in the Trayvon Martin tragedy in Sanford.
The information that has been publicly reported concerning Trayvon Martin’s death indicates that the castle doctrine may not be applicable to justify the actions of the attacker, Mr. Zimmerman…
Mr. Zimmerman’s unnecessary pursuit and confrontation of Trayvon Martin elevated the prospect of a violent episode and does not seem to be an act of self-defense as defined by the castle doctrine. There is no protection in the “Stand Your Ground” law for anyone who pursues and confronts people."*
(Baxley used castle doctrine and SYG interchangably).
In the NPR piece:
“That’s an excellent question, and, in fact, there is proportionality. This bill talks about meeting force with force. It doesn’t say automatically use, you know, force that requires the death of the other person or lethal force. It says you’re allowed to meet force with force, including, if necessary, the lethal force to stop the attack. And so there is a discussion about that acceleration. That is not the same as a duty to retreat, but it means, you know, to me, force with force means that if you’re yelling at me, I can yell back. If you’re pumping me on the chest, I can pump you on the chest. But if you got your hands around my neck to choke me to death, then I can stop that lethal attack.”
Doesn’t sound like words of support for Zimmerman.
WTF???
Really?
Does this surprise you then?
Are you unsure what they’re saying, or you annoyed that someone dare mock the race aspect of this fiasco?
It’s one thing that this case has been born out of popular demand and turned into almost as much of a media circus as the OJ trial.
It’s however entirely another that it sets a new precedent for legal lows. The amount of poor decorum and professionalism is astounding.
Timely find.
What’s the problem? A creepy black man was trying to keep an eye on me. He got out of his vehicle to see which way I went, which conferred to me the legal right to pummel and bash him beyond submission. Yeah, he was screaming and yelling for help, but I would have none of it. I just kept right on battering and beating him. He tried to get away, but I held him down. Some other black guy even stepped out and told me to stop or he’d call the police. I ignored him and he went back inside. That’s just how I roll. They don’t call me No Limit Cracka for nothing. That’ll teach him to treat me like I’m the type of person that might be prone to criminal acts.
I had a similar experience I’d like to share with you.
I had just gotten out of church, where I spent my day like I spend all my days, praying for hope and peace for all mankind. It was late and dark and raining, but I was full of love for humanity as I walked home to take care of my sick Nana, when a scary man started following me in his van.
“Oh, this must be the neighborhood watchman” I thought, as I skipped over to his van to assure him that I was just on my way home. To my utter surprise he pulled me into his van and raped and murdered me.
“Oh my” I thought just before he caved in my skull, dismembered my corpse, and buried it in the woods “I hadn’t realized that creepy people who follow you late at night might not all be nice!”
The worst part was, I knew people were all around; I could hear their dog whistles. But none of them helped.
I remember people saying the same thing about him being arrested. But he was arrested.
The same people then shifted gears and expressed confidence that the charges would be dropped before long. But the charges have stayed.
Predictably, now the same crowd is insisting–despite the utter wrongness of their previous predictions–that there is no way he’s going to be convicted.
Aren’t yall getting tired of being proven wrong?
We’ve not been proven wrong about anything yet, and unless the prosecution has been illegally lying about the extent of evidence against Zimmerman, we can’t be.
There is no evidence that he’s guilty of murder. If you can prove me wrong, do as you’ve been asked numerous times, and show the evidence.
I’ll not hold my breath, as every time that’s been asked of someone, they’ve either ignored it, or replied with speculation and irrelevancies.