What heretofore secret injuries to Zimmerman not present in the photographs, his own claims, or the testimony of any first responder or medical caregiver are you alleging occurred?
None. I’m suggesting that judging the severity of an injury from a series of photographs is not going to be as diagnostically sound as examining the actual patient.
Unless there is a dispute as to what the injuries were, there is no reason examining the patient should impact testimony as to whether a certain pattern of injury could have been caused by some action or not.
I think you’re hung up on Zimmerman’s claim that he was bashed a certain number of times.
I agree that the testimony is sufficient to cast strong doubt on the claim that he was bashed however many times he said.
But as she apparently conceded, the injuries could have resulted from two slams to the sidewalk. Yes?
And I think the point was equally clear that the more number of times his head was theoretically slammed in to the sidewalk, the more likely that each individual impact was rather light in force given the insignificant nature of the injury.
Theoretically his head could have been in contact with the sidewalk a million times, each time with the force of a baby mosquito. Wouldn’t be life threatening.
Are you claiming that a number of light slams against concrete couldn’t put one in reasonable fear that the next slam could be harder, even hard enough to cause death or great bodily harm? Remember, the injuries he sustained are relevant exactly as far as they show whether any fear he was in of death or serious injury was reasonable. To the extent he was entitled to defend himself, it was to protect against future injuries, not to get revenge for past ones.
Can we get some clarification. Does one actually have to have received life threatening injuries in order to use deadly force in defending yourself according the Florida law?
You’re veering into the conflation of “the injuries themselves don’t justify self-defense” with “the injuries prove that Zimmerman is a liar because they do not match what he claim happened” again. I’m arguing the second and the doctor’s testimony is backing me up; it’s nearly word-for-word what I’ve been saying for the past week. The former is not how it works and nobody disputes that.
Unequivocally, no. Florida statute 776.012:
The deadly force can be used to prevent great bodily harm, and thus doesn’t require great bodily harm to have already been inflicted, only the reasonable fear of it.
No, nor in any other state. You don’t have to be injured at all - just in a situation where a reasonable person would fear death or serious injury.
The example given several times in the thread is someone shooting at you and missing - you wouldn’t be hurt at all, yet you would probably be justified in killing the shooter.
Thus Zimmerman had been knocked down, his nose broken, and Martin was sitting on top of him, and had slammed his head against the sidewalk at least twice, hard enough to split the scalp. Bricker has already cited that a broken nose is serious injury, so Zimmerman had already received wounds that he would have been justified in shooting (possibly, depending on circumstance) to avoid. And most people agree that having your head slammed on the sidewalk is also a situation liable to bring about serious injury. Zimmerman was under no obligation to wait until his skull was smashed before shooting.
Regards,
Shodan
Zimmerman didn’t claim that he feared his head would be smashed into the concrete in the future. He claimed that it had already happened before he shot. The medical evidence shows this is not possible. Ho hum.
I’m claiming that a number of light impacts are in direct opposition to Martin’s testimony that his head was slammed so hard it was like his head was ‘going to explode’ and that he was scared he was going to ‘lose conciousness’, and I’m claiming that such light impact would suggest he wasn’t completely helpless in the struggle and thus would not have a reasonable fear of death or bodily harm.
If you claim otherwise, I guess it means that the next time get bumped in to really hard, I better pull out a gun and shoot the guy in the head, because the *next *such bump might be knock me down and kill me.
ahahaha - you mean those two teeny, tiny little cuts? ‘Split his scalp’? Exaggerate much?
I guess I should be used to your making demonstrably false statements, but I’m going to point this latest out anyway. Zimmerman claimed future injury as the basis for his shooting Martin. Your statements to the contrary are false.
No, I don’t.
Regards,
Shodan
She was forced to admit that 4 hits were possible when asked about the edge of the sidewalk. And no sane person is going to believe getting one’s head struck on cement carries with it the force of a mosquito. The defense will certainly produce someone to counter her claims. Zimmerman’s claim in reference to his back head injuries is that it felt like his head would explode. Considering how easy it is to knock someone out that won’t be hard to establish.
Is Team Zimmerman this far gone? You cite a quote backing up my claim and just assert is supports your differing one…?
It doesn’t back up your claim; it contradicts it. Unless you don’t understand “was going to” is not a reference to the past.
Regards,
Shodan
And, as we are now seeing in line with what I’ve been trying to get you to comprehend for days, Zimmerman can’t be telling the truth, because his injuries were trivial.
Yes, getting your head slammed into concrete will make it feel like it is going to explode and cause grievous bodily harm. But Zimmerman’s head wasn’t slammed into concrete. We know that because he doesn’t having the bruising, the wounds to the skull, or the neurological effects that this would cause. The MD explained this on the stand. The injuries are consistent with scraping his head on the ground while rolling around in a fight far less intense than what he claimed.
And once more we’re at physical reality not matching Zimmerman’s story, and Zimmerman thus having no credibility. What he claims happened and what he claims his head felt like cannot be truthful statements.
“It felt like my head was going to explode” means “I was, at that point in the past, feeling pain in my head.” It does not mean “I feared that Trayvon Martin had a plan to literally make my head explode at some point in the future and that is why I shot him.” Come on. You’re straining credibility purely on the issue of whether you can possibly believe what you are saying.
No, it does not. The medical evidence shows that his injuries are perfectly consistent with having been hit against concrete, and now we have an actual MD who has testified to that, since you keep pretending that all the other medical and law enforcement professionals who’ve said that somehow know less than you about the effects of head injuries and fighting.
Do you not realise that head injuries can knock out, disable, or kill without even breaking the skin? Zimmerman had already received injuries that broke the skin, was still being attacked, and, inShodan’s cite, describes feeling like his head would explode, and he might lose consciousness - that is, specifically describing things he thought might happen to him, and things that it would be reasonable to be afraid of (assuming you understand the use of “explode” as a metaphor. I can explain if you’re struggling).
Oh, and you still haven’t explained how you know Zimmerman was lying, and not mistaken, even if you take it as proven that he wasn’t hit as many times as he said. It’s far from proven, but it’s also irrelevant.
It means “I was afraid for my life because if Martin continued to slam my head into the sidewalk, it would crush my skull”.
It also means “when I read some of the idiocy my detractors post on the Internet, I will conclude they can’t speak English”.
Regards,
Shodan