Well, that’s convincing.
Well, yes, if it is real it is a disturbing remark, and I suggest you bring it up the next time Mr. Taafe shoots someone.
Regards,
Shodan
The vast majority of petty crimes…hell, major crimes! are committed by males between (ass-guessing, but I’m close) 15 and 25, to start with. Zimmerman correctly ID’d Martin as late teens (and later stated he didn’t realize how young he was…man, that dude’s pants became cinder ages ago…). Rightly or wrongly (and I’m going with wrongly) we all know that our prisons overflow with young black men, so there’s a real world influence to couple with the media influence that young black men are more likely to be criminals. Then the hoodie. If Martin had been a 30 year old black lawyer in a suit, nice raincoat and carrying a briefcase, I’m sure Zimmerman wouldn’t have given him a second glance.
It’s not the skin color exclusively. It’s race, age, wardrobe…other things as well, depending. It doesn’t mean that people who look a certain way ARE criminal or terrorist or whatever, but criminals and terrorists and whatevers do tend have certain similarities that make it more reasonable to be suspicious of them than of the 80 year old lady in the wheelchair. She might be the mastermind of a mob, but statistically speaking it’s not likely.
While we’re in the speculations thread, Stoid, might I trouble you with a question?
Have you ever fired, or stood close to someone who fired, a short-barreled 9mm pistol, while wearing no hearing protection?
Stoid, stoid, stoid…so, because he was wearing a sweatshirt that 90% of teens wear, even in the upper middle class area Im from, then he was " suspicious"…would anyone expect a teenage boy to be wearing a suit and carrying a briefcase?
I fired a gun at a gun range with protection once, no idea what kind it was anymore. That’s the only time I’ve been close to a gun firing.
No. and…
I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying it’s not wrong. It’s not racist. And it’s not useful to pretend that profiling has no validity. People need to just chill and stop finding reasons to be offended.
You said its not right, but its not wrong? That sounds like a riddle, like you want it both ways, Im not sure what you mean. Profiling what? What was there to profile? He was in high school, and was wearing a sweatshirt, what the majority of boys and even alot of girls that age wear, it is a really popular style of dress that high school andyoung college age kids wear from all socio economic was of life. Its not like he was dressed in gang attire flashing a gang sign,…that would be a cause to profile. But there was nothing about Martin to profile.
Ok. I ask because one thing that TV shows, movies, and the 911 call (as cell phones have a peak volume) fail to convey is that guns, short-barreled guns in particular, are fucking loud.
One notion I’ve heard, from you and from others, is that if the screams on the 911 call are from Zimmerman, why do they end right when the shot is fired? Something that hasn’t been pointed out, or at least not adequately, is the role a loud gunshot might play. Such an event, with earsplitting noise and a blinding flash (something else made worse by a short barrel), could well be shocking and unnerving enough on its own to account for the screaming ending.
Profiling is a useful tool even if it is unfair. What isn’t fair is acting on that profile arbitrarily against somebody who has done nothing wrong. Following somebody to the point that they feel the need to fight you. Not announcing yourself as friendly to the person you are following. Acting against the advice of the authorities to ‘get the punk’ Not staying on the line with 911 while you put yourself further into a situation you THINK is dangerous. Zimmerman set himself up for a rightful ass-whipping.
Two boo-boos and a bloodied nose later he pulls the trigger. What a f’ing joke of a story. Where are the defensive wounds on Zimmerman? Did he really try his best prior to drawing and firing? Not one scrape on his hands or arms? No bruises on his back? Middle school fights produce more wounds in less time.
Zimmerman getting off scott-free means every person that thinks they could be profiled as a thug should file a “flight plan” with the home association prior to leaving for the day… Just in case a vigilante rent-a-neighborhood-watchmen thinks you look funny.
The screaming stopped after the fight because one fighter had a hole in his chest and the other guy was busy police style subduing his “suspect”. Zimmerman didn’t continue screaming (if it was George yelling in the first place) because he wasn’t in pain since his injuries were the kind that make you yell an expletive then walk to the cabinet where you keep your Ninja Turtles bandaids.
Sure, it’s possible. But it’s not really a great idea to look at each issue in isolation… A much more likely scenario is that the person doing the screaming got a bullet to the chest. Besides, why would Zimmerman continue to screen? Which brings me to much more interesting Zimmerman tales: He claims that he did not think he had hit Martin. Really? He’s a foot in front of you sitting on top of you, you take aim and fire into his chest, and you don’t think you hit him?
If you didn’t think you hit him, why did you think he set up and said “you got me”?
If you didn’t think you hit him, why did you think he rolled over onto his face?
If you didn’t think you hit him, why did you think he stopped hitting you?
So, this is where Zimmerman gets tangled in his own lies:: the reality is very close, what he really didn’t think he had succeeded in doing, was killing him. And he needed to kill him, because he needed not to be arguing with anyone else about what he had really done that night. But if he had told the real truth, and said “I didn’t think I had killed him”, then what would have been his explanation for climbing on to the mortally wounded boys back? That’s an awfully aggressive, dangerous, stupid, insensitive thing to do to somebody who has a hole in their chest, don’t you think? How could he possibly excuse that level of egregious disregard for Trayvon Martin’s health? Much less damning is a claim that he did not believe he had hit Martin at all, which gives him the excuse for climbing onto his back: to restrain him and search him. But the real reason he probably climbed onto Martin’s back was to *make sure *he was dead.
Whether you accept my theory about why he did the things we know for sure he did or not, unless you believe that Zimmerman is simply intellectually defective, his many statements about what supposedly occurred and what he did and why simply do not make any rational sense.
By the way: according to GZ, he was no longer in any fear of serious injury nor death when he killed Trayvon. That in fact, GZ had removed all threats of injury and death. Based on his story, he had removed his head off the sidewalk thereby preventing further injury to his head.
Also based on his story, he removed Trayvon’s hand off his nose by using a wrist lock. Also based on his story, when he unholstered his gun to shoot Trayvon, he had Trayvon’s arm pinned.
So why was his only option to put a bullet in the 17-year-old’s chest? Why didn’t he simply use these skills to stop Martin earlier? Or why didn’t he simply continue preventing Martin from hitting him, knowing the police would be there any minute? Why didn’t he choose to speak at that moment and say any one of a hundred things that might have given Martin pause? Perhaps because Martin was screaming hysterically in his face? Or if you believe Zimmerman he was screaming hysterically while pinning Martin and reaching for his gun… Seriously? ***Seriously? ***You guys really truly honestly in your heart of all hearts believe this ludicrous story?
Way too many things he did or said that dont make sense or add up. One of the first things that didnt make any sense is why didnt gz simply IDENTIFY HIMSELF at the outset, that is just so glaringly obvious. If he had taken this initial step, Trayvon would not have felt so scared. But to Trayvon, he thought he was being followed by some creepy older man as he walked home. The very thing parents and schools preach to kids to be wary of strangers, especially if theyre being followed in a car they can be pulled into. I would feel threatened if some random person began trailing me in a car, and Im alone. Yet we see that Trayvon wasnt confrontational, he kept trying to walk AWAY from the stranger in the car.
Stoid, it doesn’t really matter whether or not shooting was his only option. The law doesn’t read that you can only use deadly force if no other options are available. Have you have been in a fight or wrestled someone? Getting someone in a wrist lock doesn’t mean you’ve disabled them, it doesn’t mean they’ve stopped struggling and it doesn’t mean they can’t get free and continue to pummel you. In short, it doesn’t mean the fight is over. If I’m afraid for my life I don’t care if I think the police are only minutes away. I could be dead or suffer grievous injuries by the time anyone comes to assist me.
Now as for whether or not I believe Zimmerman. I don’t have much of an opinion one way or the other. I don’t find his version of what happened to be wildly inconsistent with the available evidence. I don’t think the prosecution had a viable case. This never should have gone to trial. And boy howdy am I going to feel stupid if they convict. But I’ll feel pretty good if they convict and the judge sets it aside or the conviction gets overturned on appeal since that’s my prediction. I think I win a prize if I’m right.
Why is it so glaringly obvious? Would you identify yourself to someone you thought was suspicious?
Why do you think Martin was scared? He returned to the location Zimmerman came from.
According to Zimmerman he approached him in the car. That would be the opposite of walking away. And according to the testimony in the trial Martin was at his home. Can you account for his actions after that point? It seems so glaringly obvious that he should have stayed there and called the police if he thought as you did. That didn’t happen. He left the safety of where he was and went back to where Zimmerman was. He then assaulted him without any sign of stopping. Seems confrontational to me.
How do you think the trial is going to go now that the Prosecution has rested and the Defense presents it’s case?
Magiver, that is rather astounding you dont understand why he shouldve initially identified himself as neighborhood watch. In todays society kids are taught at home and school how important it is to avoid strangers. How was Trayvon to know gz was a neighborhood watch volunteer? Gz was just some stranger, following him around in his car.
As far as the other point, " according to Zimmerman" , those three words are an issue.
Stoid you are way to caught up in “sides”.
There are several, probably many posting (and perhaps not posting), that think the evidence doesn’t justify conviction under Florida law as it is today.
That understand, that in 48 of 50 States he’d probably be looking at a pretty slam dunk manslaughter conviction. But the law is the law.
And in the United States we have this wonderful thing… States rights. Sometimes it is good. Wanna marry your same sex partner? Don’t wanna pay State Income Tax? There are States you can do that in. Sometimes it is bad… witness the problems we had with slavery, abortion. Sometimes the only way to get a bad law changed is to make a big fuss when it fails. In the long run I think an acquittal of Zimmerman will be better than a conviction. As an acquittal will surly put a ton of scrutiny on Florida’s SYG and Self Defense statutes.
When I was in neighborhood watch, the instructions from local PD were to “Observe and report suspicious behavior, but do not approach”. Never were we told to identify ourselves.
So the whole Zimmerman should have identified himself is crap. Either he was following the guidelines and not approaching and was jumped, or he had already thrown the playbook out the window and was approaching Trayvon. (I know, I know, a million angels can dance between the two, but I hope you get my point.)
I asked you a question. Would you identify yourself to someone you thought was suspicious? And please explain how doing so makes you less of a stranger versus a bag of candy? And explain why Martin left his house and went back to the last known location of Zimmerman.
It was on the NE phone log so it’s a matter of record.
To discount this evidence means you believe he created a lie ahead of time without knowing what evidence was available to disprove it.
Your question is if I were in the role of gz would I identify myself? Of course, what kind of question is that? Gz took on the role of being a neighborhood watch captain, he was not acting " on his own" he was acting on behalf of the neighborhood watch…of course it was his responsibility to identify himself. Since we know that as it turned out Trayvon was not engaged in any suspicious or criminal activity, gzs claim he felt threatened is his excuse for murder… Trayvon was a kid, walking home in his neighborhood, where is the suspicious activity? Earlier today I drove past a junior college and saw a number of 18 to 22 yr old kids, some men, weating hoodies, in a upper middle class area, luckily for them gz wasnt driving by, or we would have a few less chemistry and engineering students around
What do you mean, there was nothing to profile?
It was a crime-riddled neighborhood. The residents said there were a lot of burglaries and thefts. The Sanford police has a long record of burglary reports from Twin Oaks. The neighbors were calling the PD an average of once a day. The neighbors got together and formed a neighborhood watch because of the crime. The SPD had even helped set up the NW. The residents were told that if they saw “anything” suspicious they should call the police.
Residents were profiling strangers. TM was a stranger who happened to be acting in a suspicious manner. TM dressed like any other kid which is how the burglars were dressed - just like any other kid.
The fact that TM was acting suspiciously warranted a call to the police.
Neither TM or GZ did anything illegal up until the time one of them started manhandling the other. It’s not illegal to ask someone a question. It is illegal to punch someone for asking a question.