Martin/Zimmerman: humble opinions and speculation thread

And your evidence that he’s incorrect is what, exactly?

And secondly, who is the jury going to believe threw the first punch? Did Zimmerman have any logical reason to chase down a bigger, younger guy, and punch him? Or would a young kid already used to getting in fights at school and pissed off about being followed throw the first punch?

We already know that Martin was profiling Zimmerman, not vice versa, and the prosecution’s star witness testified that racism is rampant in her community.

According to the physical evidence, Martin threw the only punch.

Regards,
Shodan

You mean…you dont beleeeeve the gunman? :eek:

Still waiting for an answer. I have posted several links showing other people who were Zimmerman’s friends. These date from March 2012. You haven’t posted a single link so much as confirming your own (claimed) recollection.

So: where’s your evidence that Taafe was Zimmerman’s only friend?

I answered above…another poster added something pretty interesting re Gzs ‘friends’ above.

In what post number did you “answer above?”

Actually, yes, it is. You need to see if every piece of your theory of the crime fits the evidence, that’s how you can tell if it is plausible or not. Standing back and speaking in vague generalities is much easier, but it has no value.

Why is that much more likely?

In the walkthrough, he suggests that Martin was surrendering because Zimmerman had produced (and fired) the gun. Makes sense to me. I’ve never shot anyone in the chest, I don’t know how they’d react. Do you? I doubt movies and TV shows have it right.

And we’re talking about a chaotic fight here. There’s nothing rational or clear-headed about it.

So, he needs to kill him. He’s holding a 9mm pistol with 6 rounds left in it. But the method he uses to make sure Martin’s dead is to…climb on his back? How does that work? How does that make sure Martin is dead?

Which is to be expected. In the Battle of Cape Esperance, the U.S. fleet shelled their own vessel, the Farenholt, even though she’d just signalled her location. Were the other sailors shelling it on purpose, or is combat a stressful environment where irrational actions are commonplace?

It doesn’t matter whether that was his only option or not. I realize that you have serious issues with self-defense law, but that’s what Zimmerman is to be judged under: the law as written, not your personal code of conduct.

Does Florida law require that a finding (of 2nd degree murder) requires forethought? Why didn’t the prosecution try for a manslaughter conviction?

That is a wild-ass guess, you’re right. Maybe Martin said it, maybe he made some kind of sound that Zimmerman misinterpreted, maybe he said nothing. I don’t know which it was, and neither do you.

…by hearing it? I don’t understand. You can hear more than one sound at a time.

How immediately did he jump on Martin? No witnesses saw that part, so we don’t know. Zimmerman can guess it was a couple seconds, but I don’t trust his recall of time in that situation.

Also, given Zimmerman’s account of the man with the flashlight not matching the witness’ recall, it seems that Zimmerman wasn’t right back to regular ol’ quick-thinking him, he was still muddled enough to get details (of no consequence to his guilt or innocence) wrong.

What some people still don’t grasp is why Trayvon took off running. If he was under the mail thing, as DD claimed, he wasn’t being followed. Since it can be proven from the dispatcher call that Zimmerman was parked during the dispatcher call, he wasn’t following anyone. The only evidence that can be considered is that Trayvon approached Zimmerman’s truck and saw Zimmerman on the telephone. Now, why would anyone take off running because someone was on the telephone? Trayvon certainly wasn’t scared if he approached the vehicle.

When there’s no evidence either way, the only reasonable conclusion is “not guilty”. You can’t prove something beyond a reasonable doubt through speculation.

The prosecution charged Zimmerman (IMO) with second-degree murder to pressure him into accepting a plea agreement for manslaughter. They were attempting to keep this pressure on him right up to the point where the trial began. Then it was too late to change the charge.

Currently it appears that the prosecution recognizes that they have almost no chance of a conviction on second-degree murder, and are hoping the judge will allow the jury to convict on manslaughter, if they convict at all. I believe Bricker has posted that the judege may not include instructions about manslaughter in his jury instructions without the consent of the defense, except if the judge rules that such instructions do not compromise the defense’s ability to defend Zimmerman. Were I the defense, I would fight tooth and nail against any suggestion of manslaughter. The defense is on a roll - I see no reason why they should compromise at this point.

Regards,
Shodan

No, only first-degree murder does:

Unclear, though it may be available as an option for the jury.

Under no circumstances should GZ have approached Martin. PERIOD. The correct course of action was to call the police and keep his distance. This is what he did. Martin did the exact opposite of this. He approached him TWICE.

Yes we have evidence that Martin was the aggressor. We have the testimony of Zimmerman. We have the evidence of his injuries including a photograph of a swollen and bleeding nose which is consistent with his account. There are no indications Martin was struck.

So if there are no indications that Martin was struck and solid proof Zimmerman was struck then the evidence of his account stands.

The wounds were not superficial, he was bleeding front to back with a swollen nose and the back of his head was covered in abrasions. And I don’t know what rock you live under but you can clearly see the bandages in the video. On top of that it’s possible to injure someone’s head without showing a scratch. The shock involved in a head strike is a serious threat to one’s life.

No, audio/visual evidence is not the only method of proving a lie. Evidential proof is something that eliminates all other possibilities.

As it happens, though, the defense consented to a manslaughter instruction when they moved for a directed verdict at the close of the prosecution case. O’Mara argued that the judge should at least dismiss second degree murder but let the jury consider manslaughter.

They were as discussed on numerous news programs, nothing more than superficial cuts.

While its true there are some types of head injuries that dont result in external scratches, this would not be the case for the type of injury gz claims. its pretty hard to have your head bashed into concrete repeatedly without major damage, yet amazingly gz did…someone who had their head bashed into concrete, he didnt sustain deep gashes requiring any stitches, skull fractures, concussion, head trauma or brain damage. But he whined about a couple superficial ouchies. I can see why his ex had to get a protective order against him