if I remember correctly, Zimmerman said he was able to move his head off the sidewalk so there was some squirming around going on. He’s not just laying there. The only thing relevant is that Martin’s body was at a location consistent with Zimmerman and eyewitness accounts and that is the sidewalk or any other solid object. How he was-pushed-off/staggered/rotated/fell is irrelevant.
Martin was found face down with his arms under him though. And wasn’t Zimmerman seen standing over Martin with his arms on his back? Seems like a lot of activity between Martin straddling him and beating him senseless and how his body ended up, seemingly caused by just a gunshot. Maybe it was just a really powerful bullet I guess. Like in the movies, how a bullet can send the victims body flying away (which the mythbusters disproved incidentally).
Also, the cuts on Zimmerman’s head could have come from stones or twigs in the grass. That doesn’t prove that his head was slammed into the concrete. Did they find Zimmerman’s blood on the concrete anywhere?
Couldn’t find the Fulton interview, but here’s a post bond hearing interview with O’Mara where he explains Zimmerman’s comments as a response to Sabrina Fulton’s questions (go to 1:05).
Still creates questions about his judgement. By saying “I didn’t know he was unarmed” it implies he thought about it. It shows poor judgement to follow someone where doubt exists about whether they are armed or not.
The neighborhood watch guy should not follow someone where doubt exists about whether they are armed or not. He is not law enforcement. The police dispatcher knew he was neighborhood watch, and still said “we don’t need you to do that.” The jury will see it as poor judgement that led to a homicide.
your making multiple points here. On a moral/human level you can say that Zimmerman could have done more to defuse the situation but that’s not a legal point and it’s also speculative to say it. Both parties were suspicious of each other and both reacted to each other based on that premise which is human nature.
but as far as the gun used as Zimmerman’s first line of defense that is also speculation. If he was sucker punched then he wasn’t afforded much else which made the gun both his first and last line of defense.
Martin shouldn’t have died. But there are a lot of things He shouldn’t have done such as getting suspended from school, taking illegal drugs, and beating the crap out of Zimmerman. Actions have consequences and those consequences are not linear. People shouldn’t die because they’re walking but if they walk in front of a car then the consequences are severe. Martin was not a bystander in his own death.
Actually, 5’11" inches away. The autopsy report gave Martin’s height as 71 inches. He is the incredible shrinking victim-thug.
Landing on his back seems like the logical scenario here, but Martin died on his stomach.
No it isn’t. It’s right in their little by-laws that the job of a neighborhood watch is to report suspicious activity to the police; not to follow perps, being sure to maintain line-of-sight so you can heroically help the police when they show up.
Zimmerman didn’t *need *to get out of his car.
That’s a wild ass assumption. For all you know Martin was standing still thinking he was out of Zimmerman’s ever-important line-of-sight when Zimmerman confronted him.
Where are you getting that from? In fact, according to CNN, the last thing Martin’s girlfriend heard him say on the phone was, “get off, get off,” almost as if he was telling Zimmerman to get your fucking hands off me.
Bullshit. Zimmerman is the one who went looking for a confrontation when he got out of his truck with a gun so one of those assholes wouldn’t get away again. If he had minded his own business, Martin would be smoking a bong-load right now and we’d be arguing about Romney’s dog or some shit.
It’s Zimmerman’s problem that he can’t fight … and of course, now, Martin’s.
In the big picture, that is far more importantt than the prosecution of one man (that’s probably going to end at the pre-trial hearing, anyway.)
I forgot another WTF:
All the talk about THC is interesting. If we can talk about how THC may have affected Martin’s state of mind, isn’t it fair to do the same for Zimmerman? Does the illegality of THC trump the pharmacy of legal prescription drugs that Zimmerman was on?
[QUOTE=http://www.politicolnews.com/trayvon-martin-investigation-report-released/]
However no references were made to any drug tests performed on George Zimmerman the night of the murder. No blood samples, no urine samples were taken on the perpetrator, just the victim which indicates sloppy police work and an incomplete investigation by Sanford police. Police did not arrest George Zimmerman that night of the death he caused, not for any tests or for any charges to be laid at all.
The documents revealed some interesting facts in the investigation that followed:
Zimmerman at some point had blood droplets on the back of his head, from minor cuts.
Zimmerman also told the fire department medics he had taken prescription drugs which are outlined below.
Prescription Drugs Taken By George Zimmerman
- Temazepam – is a hypnotic, psycho active drug, used for short term insomnia, anti-anxiety, anticonvulant and muscle relaxant properties. Hypnotics are addictive, can cause daytime fatigue, motor vehicle crashes, cognitive impairments and falls.
This drug temazepam also distorts normal sleep patterns, the limit of prescription is 2 – 4 weeks. It causes impairment of body steadiness.
Side effects: depression, euphoria, amnesia, aggression, Violence, overstimulation, agitation have been reported. A person must ensure they get 8 hours sleep before taking temazepam, or side effects are increased.
Contraindications: should be avoided by people who:
have lack of coordination of muscles, severe hypoventilation, Sleep Apnea
Severe Depression, suicidal tendencies, used with alcohol, narcotics, or other psychoactive drugs, Hypersensitivity.
High Risk Groups: are those who are emotionally unstable, severe personality disorders, Borderline Personality disorder BPD.
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Librax a choldiazepoxide and clidinium bromide used for ulcers, IBS and gastritis prescribed for anxiety patients and is also addictive.Suddenly withdrawing from the drug causes anxiousness, sleeplessness and irritability.
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Adderall another drug given to patients with ADHD- Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder is a psychostimulant. It is a given that ADHD patients, who are known to exhibit risky behavior. Adderall is not recommended in patients who exhibit signs of mental illness, and is sometimes used as an amphetamine stimulant, for its euphoric or “feelings of getting high” effects. In this case, George Zimmerman must have been diagnosed with ADHD to be prescribed this drug and must exhibit the characteristics of that illness.
Read more: http://www.politicolnews.com/trayvon-martin-investigation-report-released/#ixzz1vGFJa770
[/quote]
If we want to continue talking about how Trayvon was a less-than-angelic human being, I suppose all’s fair in media-tried court cases. But let’s not just focus on the dead kid. Molecule-for-molecule, Zimmerman looks more like a druggie than Martin. And I hope someone’s head is rolling for not requesting a blood/urine sample. It is a damn shame that Martin’s getting blasting for having trace amounts of THC in his blood, but Zimmerman could have been all kinds of fucked-up. So it’s blatantly unfair to keep talking about Martin. The more people do, the more it reminds me about how badly this case started off.
Magiver, according to this link, Martin’s legs were on the sidewalk and his head and torso were found perpendicular to the sidewalk (while Zimmerman supposedly had his head only on the sidewalk). I have scoured the internet to find something about the body position from an official source, but I cannot find it. IF the body was found as is described, then it does not jibe with Zimmerman’s account of what happened. Either there was some flopping around after the shot or the body was moved. I am not playing detective here. I am just using the sense my mama gave me.
Since screaming for help was not continuous, how does it contradict Martin putting his hand over Zimmerman’s mouth at some point?
Zimmerman pushes Martin off, fires his gun at the kneeling teenager, and Martin falls forward, legs stretched out on the sidewalk. This is a much more credible scenario, lacking all the WTFs of the supposed claim.
It’s a WTF to believe that he was being suffocated enough to sink into near unconsciousness and yet still managed to get out those wails. There are brief pauses in the screams, true, but not long enough for Zimmerman to seriously think he was being suffocated.
And it kind of begs the old question: Just how in the hell could Martin have such an advantage over him that he’d be able to bash his head in, suffocate him, AND reach for his gun? Where were Zimmerman’s arms during all of this madness? If they were pinned by Martin’s legs, then Zimmerman is going to have to explain how he was able to reach for his gun, supposedly holstered at the very place where Martin would have been sitting. If they were not pinned, why wouldn’t Zimmerman have been able to put some defense moves on Martin? No scratches to the face, even? Is it really believable that a single scratch on an attacker’s finger is the only way someone would be able to defend themselves, apart from a gun? Does this weirdness mean that Zimmerman is a killer? No. But it’s a WTF on a mountain of 'em.
Except that it’s now pretty clear that Zimmerman DID have injuries galore, and Martin didn’t. So something has to explain it, yes?
OK monstro’s last cite is the first I’ve seen about a struggle for the gun. But one minor injury to Trayvon’s hands and apparently none to Zimmerman’s hands. The pictore I saw only showed the back and not the palms of Zimmerman’s hands though.
And in post 1475 the girlfriend tells us that Martin didn’t go all the way home because he was worried he was still being followed. I really don’t think Martin doubled back. Coupled withe witness who said he saw two men running one after the other. I think that’s your explanation for Trayvon not being at home chillin’ right now.
ETA Repeatig cite: http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/18/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html
And I’m saying, if I were on the jury, I’d be waiting for an explanation. And I’d spend a lot of time thinking about its plausibility, probably moreso than on other points of the story. If the explanation is only going to contain more WTF, then the jury may start believing the guy is a murdering liar. I don’t see why the defense shouldn’t be worried about this.
He didn’t have injuries galore. He had two minor cuts that didn’t require dressing or stitches, some small facial scratches, and a broke nose. None of these injuries were so severe they prompted Zimmerman to go the ER.
As for his nose, if Zimmerman had had a broken nose previously (especially if it was a recent incident), all the prosecution has to do is put a ear nose and throat doc on the stand to testify that this history increases the likelihood of him having another break. Meaning, Martin wouldn’t have needed to hit him very hard to cause the injury he did.
It probably came up because Zimmerman has read the newspaper, watched TV and etc probably 10x as intensely as any of us have the past few months. How many articles have you personally read that lead off with or include the phrase “unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin.”
I think Zimmerman felt he needed to address that in his apology. That bond hearing didn’t happen randomly, Zimmerman was a little shaky in it but I very seriously doubt that O’Mara didn’t work with him on what he’d say at the hearing. I think if this was a major issue O’Mara probably would not let him say it. It’s possible it “slipped out” in spite of O’Mara’s prior discussions with Zimmerman, of course.
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How is it a problem? I doubt Corey brings it up because I don’t really think it is very damaging or even damaging at all to his narrative. He said on the 911 tape that he saw Martin “reaching into his waist band” so he has some level of independent corroboration for the fact that somewhere in his mind he may have thought Martin had a weapon.
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The second part is irrelevant. If he followed him thinking there was a chance he might be armed, that doesn’t make following him criminal or make him any more or less culpable. He obviously didn’t resort to shooting first and asking questions later, since he received some injuries before firing his weapon.
I think you’re obsessing over “WTFs” that at worst will just be inconclusive at trial. Inconclusive means it doesn’t really substantiate proof beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman wasn’t acting in self defense. Which is the standard here.
I doubt you would be placed on a jury because they do question you on your interpretation of concepts like “presumption of innocence” and etc when selecting the jury pool and given your thought process here your answers to those questions would exclude you from being seated.