I don’t disagree, but what I think michigan and I were discussing was not could there be a conviction under the circumstances you describe, but should there be one. I.e. would Martin have been justified in punching someone who was following him and asking him questions.
Nobody on this site has engaged in a “hah-hah” mentality regarding Zimmerman. He is not being defended as an individual by anybody. The people defending him have merely pointed out the legal aspect of the case based on the current level of information.
That will change as the information changes. I don’t think anybody gives a fuck about Zimmerman beyond the legal aspect. It would be great to have a witness who saw the confrontation from the beginning. But as it stands now, the physical evidence is consistent with Zimmerman’s story. Absent that, it’s going to be difficult convict him.
First, from a perception and political reality standpoint, the police would have certainly charged Zimmerman if the SYG law did not exist, because those defenses are affirmative defenses to be raised at trial. This would have defused the wave of protests from people who became convinced that there was a cover-up, or simply a lack of care as to the death of a black teenager.
Secondly, from a punishment perspective. In a traditional self-defense context, the burden falls on Zimmerman to prove that he was entitled to self-defense. This is obviously a lower burden for the state to secure a conviction. Under this framework, the state has merely to show that Zimmerman killed Martin, and then the burden falls to Zimmerman to show that he could not have retreated. I think most of the emotion about criminal procedure and this cases arises from people who can’t believe that this ISN’T how it works.
He is basically saying this: there are millions of black teenagers who can’t speak Basic Standard English (a retarded claim to begin with). Trayvon is black. Where is the proof that he isn’t like all the other illiterate black people.
But I’m race-baiting for pointing that out, I suppose.
That’s about as thin as it can possibly get. Hey, Trayvon thought Zimmerman was “crazy and creepy”. Does that show that he acted “in malice” against Zimmerman?
Martin was wearing a hoodie over a tshirt. Most of the blood that was emitted from the wound would have been caught by the two barriers. Also, the autopsy found a lot of blood pooled in the body, around the lungs, thus not much was bleeding out.
They looked for what they needed to indict. The statements are the richest source.
I think if they knew, then he knew. There were not many investigators on this case.
I disagree. For a normal middle class person, being indicted for murder is an extremely severe punishment of its own, even if they beat the rap. The law is a very justified attempt to shield people from being victimized twice.
It’s likely that these laws will be rolled back in the aftermath of this incident, and that’s a tragedy.
While I admire your stamina in these many threads, I do hope you copy and pasted that list. I was unaware that referendums were held in the aforementioned states and the residents had unanimously approved the CCW statutes.
Florida has what I consider to be rather liberal CCW laws. I wonder if in other jurisdictions, Zimmerman’s past would have contained too many red flags to be granted a permit.
I can think of all kinds of scenarios that favor both Martin and Zimmerman but they’re all lacking some critical piece of information.
While in the truck both M & Z eye each other suspiciously. Martin takes the sidewalk behind the houses and Zimmerman follows. At some point it’s a run/jog for both of them. This was backed up by someone seeing 2 people run/jog passed a window. There was a brief conversation between M&Z with what was interpreted as a struggle and then the line disconnects. Martin asked why Zimmerman is following him and Zimmerman asks Martin what he’s doing there. The last words heard were “get off, get off” and presumed to be Martin’s voice by his girlfriend. Someone heard loud raised voices outside their house. At this point we don’t know if the conversation heard on the phone was the same one heard by the witness. A fight ensues but the beginning is not witnessed. All we know is that Martin was seen on top of Zimmerman. The final gunshot was not witnessed.
Normally you narrate what you’re posting. This is a site that says there was a video of Martin at his Mother’s home engaging in some kind of street fighting. The video has been pulled.
In some states, a criminal prosecution is styled, “People v. Wrongdoer.” This refers to the people of the state versus the accused.
And do you know how many criminal defendants have had their cases dismissed on the grounds that the state did not have a referendum and obtain unanimous approval to proceed with the prosecution first?
That is true to a certain extent, but based on what my friend’s kids post, not as much. I think there are a lot of abbreviations and acronyms, but people use their standard vocabulary. You don’t have to take my word for it, you can download it from scribd and form your own opinion. It is too bad that Crump has done so much image management, so we don’t have balanced view of what Trayvon was like. The stuff that gets past the censorship tends to look bad
I’m not so sure about the tweets near the end. I think somebody hacked his account after he died.
It still bothers me that Trayvon didn’t call his father instead of talking to his girlfriend. Brandy Green had lived at the Retreat for 5 years and probably knew Zimmerman. I grew up before cell phones and had a car when I was Martin’s age, but I always called in to let my parents know where I was at.
It was too grainy to see much (sound familiar?). It should be easy to ferret out. It lists the name of the other kid in the video. Find him and the others and ask.
Even if it was real I don’t think it’s admissible in court but maybe Bricker could weigh in.
You are aware that Trayvon’s mother works? My mother was working as a nurse when my brother was born, but she quit before I was born. Not only was my brother way behind me in school, but we don’t even speak with the same accent even when I was living in home.
My ex-roommate has a mother that was born in Hawaii but still speaks English in a pigeon dialect. It was funny to listen to him call home and listen how he changes dialects when He talks to his father and mother. I know a lot of Hawaiian people that can switch from pigeon to standard but some people can’t.
It is possible that Trayvon could talk in standard English, but I haven’t seen any evidence that he can. I suspect Ben Crump image management. If anybody has any evidence that I’m wrong, then please present it.