Actually, I think that is one thing the UN can do fairly well.
This is modern liberalism.
Borders are immoral.
There should be no such concept as a sovereign nation.
It is so shallow and irrational that we shouldn’t give it the weight of intellect.
But liberals can be real stupid sometimes.
Are you serious? I’d like to clear that up before responding.
Yeah. Imagine all those great Chinese restaurants! So many to choose from!
Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
John Lennon
I grew up in a town that is 18% Asian, which isn’t particularly high by California standards. I eventually moved, and I say with great relief I was able to eventually integrate into wider America, with some effort. I’m still working out how to use a fork and bake an apple pie, but I’ll get there.
- this bizarre pseudo-America is beautiful Sacramento, an utterly ordinary small city. All this despite being 18% Asian and 27% Latino (and only 34% non-Hispanic white).
So can the authors of straw man arguments.
Knock it off.
[ /Moderating ]
On the other hand, the 50,000 or so Somalis refugees that came to Canada more recently have had their difficulties assimilating. Sure, they like their cell phones but there’s more to it than that.
Talk about identity and culture can become abstract. It often helps to think about a concrete example.
In France, everyone’s ok with homosexuality, for the most part. In some Arab and North African countries, homosexuality is punishable by death. In others, it’s punishable by imprisonment or other severe things. Obviously this is because most folks in those countries want those punishments for homosexuality, based on Islamic scripture and traditions.
Suppose you were gay in gay Paris. Would you like to have tens of thousands of people with those attitudes towards homosexuality moving into your country each year?
That is ridiculous. 25-30 years ago, most right thinking people in France would have opposed homosexuality. Social mores and culture are not static. They change. Nor do people’s views remain constant when exposed to new ideas, nor does everyone in a group adhere to the same standards or with the same vigour.
Nor are people single issue decision makers, individuals dislike things about their own socirty and culture. That does not stop them from living and participating in civic life.
You can’t do anything to fix the human fundamental of wanting (a) to survive and (b) a better life for you and your family.
The ‘better life’ for these people is to live in a shithole estate/project in the back end of no where, facing hostility from the local community and, if they can get a job, earn minimum wage working long hours without job security. In a foreign language.
That’s what these people are literally dying to have. How bad must their lives be at home?
In the end we have to invest - really very seriously - in the societies from where they come. In particular, security/violence, basic standards (safe water, electricity), healthcare, and good education for their kids.
Putting that infrastructure in place in those countries is way cheaper than this bill will get in the years ahead.
It seems to me that if the European powers practiced a 100% refugee return policy, there wouldn’t *be *these boatfuls of migrants attempting to cross and drowning because no one would try, knowing it would fail.
The European powers could then create various refugee camps - maybe floating ones right offshore a safe distance away. They would be able to cherry pick the refugees they want to accept and accept a controlled number of them into each member state. The rejects they could arm and send back into Syria or something.
I’m actually not sure what to do. The problem with these hordes of fleeing refugees is that if the other news accounts are correct, they are fleeing a pathetic number of ISIS soldiers. If the civilized world, such as Iraq, Syria, and the other parties would just work together and fight, ISIS would be defeated swiftly. From the articles I have read, the problem seems to be that Syria itself is divided, and so is Iraq. The reason so many Iraqi soldiers get abandoned by their central government and not supplied with adequate support or ammunition is probably because *those *particular soldiers are from the wrong tribe and so the Iraqi central government sends them to die.
Or, some short sighted, corrupt officials are lining their own pockets at the expense of the society they serve. Either way, it’s pretty bad.
But, how is that possible? How can Marshall-Plan investment be done effectively in societies that are governed by corrupt dictatorships or roiled by civil unrest or civil war?
Obv. a huge area. I guess you start by working harder at the things you can directly influence - western corruption of developing world politicians and administrators (which is really appalling), stabilizing not imposing by imperial conquest or undermining, supporting infrastructure, health and education initiatives - whole lot of stuff poss with new solar power generating technology, stupidly cheap tablet computers, water refining, big push on generic meds (again, opposed by big Pharma), etc.
Many would argue GWB pretty much created ISIS - without that, might well have been a whole lot easier facing Assad in the Arab Spring. And the US response now to the crisis …
It only fails if you get caught - if you manage to land undetected in Europe and find an under-the-table job, I expect a refugee could do all right, or at least better than whatever situation he or she is fleeing.
Anyway, if the number of ISIS fighters are as pathetic as you say, and the refugee problem to Europe is sufficiently annoying, why don’t the technologically advanced European nations attack and destroy ISIS, eliminating the impetus for refugees to flee?
Oh, wait, this isn’t the easy-answer message board? My mistake.
I’m merging the two mass immigration threads into one.
All of this is true, and when massive numbers of immigrants are arriving in France, it compels the French people to ask, what are the social mores and culture of these immigrants? How quickly are they changing, and in what way? How many immigrants hold extreme views? What issues matter to them, and how much do they matter?
In 2002, an Islamic immigrant stabbed Bertrand Delanoe, the mayor of Paris, because Delanoe is gay. Last January, members of Al Queda murdered 17 people in Paris. Thousands of people, many of whom grew up in France or other western European countries, have traveled to the Middle East to join ISIS. Anti-Semitic violence is on the rise. Given these and similar facts, people in France and elsewhere have justifiable and understandable concerns about immigration.
Pointing out that social mores change is true. If the social mores of the immigrant community turn against violence and radicalism, then everyone will be happy. But if the social mores of an immigrant community, or a large part of it, change towards more radicalism and violence, people won’t be so happy. It’s also true that people aren’t single-issue decision makes. If immigrants put large emphasis on getting education and jobs and being productive members of society, then everyone will be happy. If too many of them put their emphasis on hatred of homosexuals or Jews or cartoonists, that’s not so good.
There’s no hatred of Jews or gays in the USA? Of course the Supreme Court finally ruled on the legality homosexuality way back in the dark ages of 2003. Gay marriage goes all the way back to three months ago. Is that a social more yet?
Islam is, of course, more tolerant that barbaric Catholicism on the issue of abortion, and there are no known acts of terrorism or murder in the Islamic world relating to abortionists. Which social more might best follow which?
I don’t necessarily disagree with you but those crazy 2,000 year old texts create some situations.
Come on man, you seriously question the differences between them?
Maybe their religion has something to do with it, call me crazy.
:rolleyes:
Well yes, millions of Syrians areGreek Orthodox after all rather than Catholic, so I’ll accept that Syria is probably different from Italy?:dubious:
(You really need to read up before you start making comments).
I am pretty sure that Greek culture in Athens had more in common with that of Aleppo than that of Alingsas.