I think it would be. Breastfeeding is very useful, but I do know, from the rounds I see on FB on the pseudoscience/fear of science crowd, that there is this idea that if you breastfeed, you don’t have to vaccinate.
Not to say breastfeeding for longer cannot have any benefits (like being cheaper and relatively easier).
I see three possibilities.
Your parents were the type that didn’t worry about it.
Your parents were the type that worried about it, but did what they could to shield you from the worry
Your parents worried about it, but you weren’t aware enough to pick up on it.
If you only ever had mild cases, its quite possible that they didn’t worry too much about it.
When I was growing up, my parents only had major medical - which means you had to be pretty darn sick to get to the doctor. Something like chicken pox, which there was no medicine for, and which the treatment was “aspirin, lots of liquids, rest, oatmeal baths and calamine lotion” (this was in the days when kids got aspirin) wouldn’t warrant a trip to the doctor unless the fever spiked enough that hospitalization was needed or an infection occurred. That doesn’t mean that they weren’t worried - my mother had a cousin die of some “minor” childhood disease like chicken pox and my grandfather had lifelong problems from his - but it wasn’t like there was anything anyone could do, and worrying us about them was certainly not going to help.
Huh? The research I’ve encountered contends that breast feeding stimulates the babies own immune system which better enables it to respond with the production of more antibodies, providing a higher level of immunity when immunized.
The passive immunity conferred via breast milk is not as strong as the passive immunity conferred via blood transfusion, serum injection or antibodies passed through the placenta during late pregnancy, as blood carries more antibodies than breast milk, and blood to blood transfusion or serum injection is a more direct transference compared to breast milk, which is absorbed or passed to the infant through it’s gastrointestinal system.
General Recommendations on Immunization (May 2012)
emphasis mine
Or check out thislittle chartprovided by the CDC of vaccination precautions for breastfeeding.
If the mother has been vaccinated for MMR, before pregnancy (vaccination is not recommended during pregnancy as MMR is a ‘live’ virus and can harm the fetus), this immunity is passed to the fetus via blood circulating through the placenta and can provide the baby protection for ~12 months after birth. And if you look at the CDC infant/child scheduleof immunizations, the MMR vax is not scheduled until 12 months of age. But again, in response to curlcoat, this protection is not passed via breast milk, but through the placenta during late pregnancy.
Isn’t that what I said, here:
I was responding to curlcoat’s claim that breast milk provided adequate immunity compared to vaccinations – which it does not. Passive immunity conferred via breast feeding may help an infants immune system fight the disease once infected or reduce symptom severity, but it is no where near the level of protection provided by active immunity via vaccination, where the infants own immune system produces antibodies, likely preventing the infection to begin with.
It’s not just on FB (I’m not on FB anyway), but many, many mommy blogs/forums and so called “vaccine truth” sites. Breast feeding is agreat complement to vaccinations and even reduces pain/stress responses or fever reactions during/after immunization, but is in NO WAY an alternative to immunizations.
You’re confusing “passive immunity” with breastfeeding, it seems. I meant that while the the mother has passed on good antibodies (and basically, that is what is passed by the colostrum/breastmilk/placenta), those antibodies can react to the vaccine (depending on the antigen). IOW, it may interfere with the part of the immune system that makes specific antibodies.
But, as WhyNot has mentioned, the mom is usually unable to pass a good amount of antibodies by milk for some diseases. And she confirmed what I knew of other animals, that passive immunity ceases long before breastfeeding stops.
Everwonderwhy,
I was just backing up what you wrote in case curlcoat didn’t see it the first time.
FYI, nursing a baby while they are getting a vaccine can greatly help reduce any pain the infant might feel:
My eldest didn’t even flinch as long as she had a boob in her mouth during the shot.
Most people probably wouldn’t. 
Huh? No I’m not. Breast feeding does confer some passive immunity, but no where near the same protection provided through placental transference during late pregnancy or active immunity provided through vaccination.
I think there is some confusion between the passive immunity conferred via breast milk (not much, but still beneficial) and the passive immunity conferred via blood through the placenta during late pregnancy. The reason this protection ceases long before weaning is because it was primarily transferred during gestation. And again, breast feeding delivers antibodies through the infant’s gastrointestinal system (ERGO diluted), not through direct blood-to-blood transference via the placenta.
The amount of mom’s antibodies transferred by breast milk =/= amount mom’s antibodies transferred via the blood through the placenta. Breast milk confers more passive immunity related to gastrointestinal bacteria and possibly HiB. The woman can pass on MMR antibodies if she was vaccinated before pregnancy and this will protect the infant for up to ~12 months. Now, vaccinating the mom for pertussis during pregnancy can blunt the effect of the vaccination for the infant later, but vaccinating the mom during pregnancy provides protection to the infant during the most vulnerable time (first 3 months of life) so this outweighs any potential blunting effects later.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/pertussis/tdap-pregnancy-hcp.htm
Vaccinations are less effective in the presence of * passive immunity when delivered by a ‘live’ virus*. Which is why MMR, varicella, zoster, rotavirus, LAIV, and yellow fever are not generally given to pregnant or breastfeeding women. Infants are not immunized for MMR, varicella, zoster until 12 months of age when any passive immunity conferred during gestation has passed. The pertussis vax is shorter acting. The antibodies passed during breast feeding are generally not enough to reduce an effective immune response upon vaccination.
Anyway, I think we are all saying essentially the same thing: Breastfeeding good. Breastfeeding is NOT immunization.
And yeah, I have little patience for the anti-vax crowd. I work in research and collaborate a bit with colleagues who work in global public health who see children suffering/dying from vaccine preventable diseases and things like leprosy. My mom had polio has a kid and almost died. While she miraculously recovered for the most part, her throat remains partially paralyzed to this day, so swallowing is still somewhat difficult. (she just eats really, really slow small bites)
I’m not reading this thread to see if it’s in here, but I’m guessing it isn’t. I just stumbled across this on James Lileks’ site – There Is Nothing New Under The Sun:
this was in Brazil.
Cal Meacham,
That kind of reaction was fairly common. Cotton Mather, the famous Boston preacher, campaigned in favor of smallpox vaccination.
The nutters tried to bomb his house:
That dumb fuck Cynthia Parker is still writting the most unreal crap in her ongoing campaign against our book.
Here she is making up her own science:
I am not in favor of censorship but I want Amazon to stop letting her use my book as her damned blog.
FYI, the alleged connection between hep b vaccination has been studied and found false repeatedly:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Vaccines/multiplesclerosis_and_hep_b.html
She goes on and on about big pharm and then endorses Andrew Wakefield who is, of course, making money hand over fist peddling bullshit.
Yes, I know that part and I was assuming that the mother had been vaccinated so she would have those pathogens, so I couldn’t figure out why newborn babies were getting vaccinated if the mother was going to breastfeed.
In dogs, we are told there is no reason to vaccinate prior to weaning because the immunity provided from nursing will interfere with the vaccines ability to create immunity. Why do puppies not get something like Parvo while nursing? (Parvo can be brought in from outside on shoes, clothes, etc.) I am assuming that all of this works the same in mammals?
Huh. As an aside, why do they change the names of these things? Why is it now pertussis and not whooping cough?
Well, two reasons. I’d never tell anyone else they had to do X to protect me, since that’s my job. But mostly because it isn’t about protecting me, it all about the kids. The article that started this thread was about the kids, even tho measles is much more dangerous in adults. No one is looking to make sure I’ve had a measles shot even tho I never had the disease, because I’m not around any kids. Same with pertussis. I have, or should have, immunity to polio, smallpox, diptheria, chicken pox and the mumps. Oh and tetnus. If people were really all that concerned with herd immunity as it applies to the whole herd, at least one of my doctors would be asking why I’ve never been vaccinated with all the things they’ve come up with since 50 years ago. But, I didn’t have kids, and so would have no grandkids, so apparently it isn’t necessary to make sure I am protected from measles, pertussis, etc.
Thanks for the link. It’s been a while since I abused the “no” button on the Amazon reviews.
I went to town too. I think I helped a couple of her comments reach that ‘0 for 6’ where Amazon stops showing it.
Uhm, the reason you mentioned there is the same thing the other person explained. They don’t get parvo because the mother has antibodies against it, and can pass it.
They can get parvo if the mother was not vaccinated, although this is uncommon because most mothers are vaccinated. Or in places with a high load of parvo contamination, overcrowding, and poor hygiene.
I think I figured out something I forgot earlier. Humans, unlike most other mammals, do receive the bulk of their maternal immunity via their placenta. Most other animals have other types (multiple types) of placenta that only allow a lesser transfer (if at all) of antibodies. Hence, for most mammals, it is breastmilk that provides the maternal immunity. But again, not even that lasts throughout nursing. In some species, the ability to absorb the antibodies needed is greatest in the first few hours after birth, and shortly declines in a couple of days. In others, the ability to pass the antibodies and absorb them can last a bit more. But by the time the animal is weaned, it most certainly stopped getting maternal immunity a while back.
I do have to point out that some diseases depend more on antibodies than others, and the immune system treats various diseases differently. While we focus on antibodies, in other diseases they are a secondary part, and the most important part is dependent on cell-mediated immunity. While placenta and breastmilk can pass the antibodies, they cannot pass cells.
This is yet another reason why vaccines are important, because they can stimulate various parts of the immune system (some vaccines can do this better than others). By making sure all the components of the immune system are primed, they can better protect against diseases than just placenta or breastmilk would.
Ah, so that’s how it works! I did it for some of the comments, but I may just go again and help reach that in others I may not have clicked…
(Now I’m having a rather disturbing vision of curlcoat raising her puppies.)
What Amazon really needs is a ‘Nobody thinks you reviews/comments are useful, so you are no longer allowed to post here’ level.
AH! Okay, so it’s that you need to know a little more about *how *vaccines work, not that they work.
No, if a woman was vaccinated more than a week or two before breastfeeding, there are no pathogens in her body. There are also no, or very few, active pathogen fighting immune cells (“antibodies”) in her blood stream. They’ve all gone into dormancy. There are “memory”, hunting antibodies that hang out in her lymph nodes and other places within the immune system that filter her fluids and are constantly testing for that pathogen they remember. If and when they find it, they send out chemical signals to create the active disease fighting antibodies according to the blueprints the body created at the time of first exposure/vaccination. But you can see this may take a little time.
The immune cell that lasts after exposure or vaccination isn’t an active disease fighting antibody. It’s a gate sentry who can sound and alarm and call in the troops when they’re needed. The troops, however, need to be built when the alarm is sent. They’re like Army Reservists who need to be called up; they don’t hang around at the barracks all the time.
So no, got measles or got vaccinated, neither the pathogen nor the disease *fighting *antibody is found in the body of the mother until/unless she’s again exposed to measles while breastfeeding.
I don’t even know what I don’t know about dogs’ immune systems and vaccines, so I can’t answer that. Except to say that, no, there’s no good reason to assume that all of this works the same in all mammals. Digestion doesn’t work the same in cows and people, why should immunity?
I think because several viruses can cause a whooping like cough, but only pertussis causes pertussis. But I’m really not sure.
It’s very likely that if you brought it up to your doctor, she’d either order you titers to see if you’re immune already or give you the vaccine. My last doctor saw a lot of immigrants, and so he’d get everyone’s vaccination status and catch older children and even adults up based on another vaccine schedule from the CDC. If your doctor doesn’t, the problem is with your doctor; the tools and knowledge are available, and according the CDC guidelines, you *should *be checked if you are 55 years old. But your doctor is probably assuming you’re already immune, having gotten to your age living in the US. Not always a safe assumption, as you know.
From the CDC:
Writing has one t and I spelled it with two. Damn.
I appreciate everyone’s support. Kolga and I would like to see Cynthia Parker banned from posting at Amazon or at least on our book. I think I can get her on the grounds that she references whale to and that is a holocaust denial website and hopefully therefore hate speech.
She’s everywhere unfortunately. Here she is responding to a Time editorial about Oprah’s giving a speech at Harvard. Oprah is not directly anti-vax but she does tend to promote the woo when she can. **Kolga **was on campus attending her college reunion.
I want to see Parker get tetanus and then go back and beg for a booster shot.
Uhm, passive immunity DOES transfer working antibodies. Once they are created, all the antibodies produced are “fighting type”. Granted, an active infection would produce even more refined antibodies. But, IIRC, mothers do produce antibodies that they can pass on to their offspring (via placenta or milk)
Again, there is a confusion betweeen antibodies and immune cells. Immune cells are not transferred by passive immunity, and yes, unless there is an active infection, the cells present are memory cells.
They will also produce more antibodies. In fact, the CDC itself recommends that pregnant women get some types of shots (the ones that won’t cause pregnancy problems), to boost the amount of antibodies (antibodies, not cells) that they can pass to the fetus.
Recap: Passive immunity does transfer active, disease fighting antibodies that can help newborns combat diseases. But they do not pass on cells that can fight infections. Those cells are produced only if the baby itself gets the antigen all by itself (not antigen bound with antibody from mom). Also, these antibodies, since they are molecules (proteins), will degrade over time, so they do not last long (a few weeks, at most).