Just this morning, I was chastised on an Alternative Healing group:
(This was in response to my post asking if anyone had any other tips for reducing the niacin flush I’m still getting about once a week, despite taking a low dose aspirin with the first dose in the morning and using slow release niacin, as my nutritionist and (Integrative) doctor recommended.)
So, yeah, SOME vitamins in some forms are “bad” to some people. Apparently if they’re wrapped in sugar from molasses, the vitamins are okay, but if they’re pressed into a pill, they’re teh evil.
I get it. I totally get it, and shared your concerns myself (as related in a too-long post upthread.) It seems ludicrous that injecting Stuff into little babies could possibly be safer than injecting Stuff into larger babies or toddlers. But it actually is. Not only are babies on a delayed vaccine at risk from the vaccine preventable illness and its complications longer than babies on the recommended schedule, but they’re also discovering that delaying administration of at least some vaccines doubles the risk of febrile seizures when the vaccine is finally administered. Now, while they’re scary as hell, a febrile seizure is not the worst thing in the world. If we saw any benefits to delaying, it might be worth the increased risk. But the sad thing is that we don’t see any benefits to delaying, either. No fewer cases of autism, no fewer adverse events of any kind. So there’s an increased risk of a very scary and uncomfortable (and occasionally dangerous) thing, and no benefit at all.
I hope you’ll read the article and reconsider, armed with new knowledge to be an even better decision maker here.
Is it any wonder? Antivaxxers (from the “all vaccines are evul” variety to the “2 much 2 soon” variety) are a tragic case of ignorance and arrogance going on to hurt a lot of extremely vulnerable people. If I had children, I would not let them hang around people who weren’t vaccinated - for their safety, and mine. You hold an opinion not based in any real scientific investigation, but rather entirely on your own irrational emotional response, to the point where you pretty much explicitly say “nothing will change my mind”. Fuck that shit, and fuck you for your closed-minded bullshit. Why should we be open-minded if you very clearly are not?
See, what in here is based on any sort of rational thought? Nothing! “Mass-produced chemicals” - what does that even fucking mean? Yeah, vaccines contain chemicals. Everything is chemicals! And the vaccines on the schedule have been tested for safety extensively. The logic is simple: “here is a chemical cocktail which we have tested to be extremely safe and effective; It protects children from deadly infectious diseases when they are at their most vulnerable”. What, do you think Measles has a three second rule when it comes to infants?
“OH NO! The doctor didn’t ask our explicit permission to perform an extremely obviously beneficial medical procedure on my child! What a jackbooted thug, trampling all over my medical freedom!” :rolleyes:
So what? Study after study after study after study has completely refuted any link whatsoever between vaccines and autism. Forget causation - there’s not even a decent correlation. What you have here is a bizarre coincidence that has clouded your judgement to the point that you are impervious to good scientific data.
See, this is what you (and every other moron who bought into Bob Sears’s baseless horseshit) don’t get. There has BEEN screening. Tons of screening. Especially for your particular bugbear. In fact, the amount of money that’s been wasted on redundant trials because the scientifically illiterate refuse to get the picture is almost astounding. Similarly, where do you think they came up with this vaccine schedule? You think they just got together and threw darts at the wall and whichever random configuration got hit they took? No! These things have been examined quite thoroughly. The current vaccine schedule is based on strong medical evidence. Evidence you either have never heard of or don’t care about.
Fun fact: Bob Sears, Jenny Fucking McCarthy, and Anne Cunt-Gargling Shit-For-Brains Dachel will all say the same fucking thing. “I’m not anti-vaccine, I just think <insert thought-free, scientifically illiterate bullshit here>”. And yet, they spew bullshit antivaccine trope after bullshit antivaccine trope. “Too many too soon!” “What about those chemicals?” “My son got autism!” None of this shit holds ANY validity, and you’re sort of going through the list right now.
Based on what? Your extremely extensive publication history? Your esteemed medical degree? Your position inside the AMA and CDC that gives you insight that the doctors who published the research on which the vaccination schedule is based didn’t have for some reason?
…Oh, wait, what’s that you say? Your own scientifically illiterate opinion and maybe a book by a medical hack who nobody in the scientific community takes seriously?
Then shut the fuck up. You want to hold this worthless, harmful, ignorant, arrogant, unwavering opinion? Fine. Just don’t expect anyone with a lick of sense to respect you for it. :mad:
Fun fact: by advocating a slower, more gradual schedule, you are exposing your children to harmful diseases, potentially furthering an outbreak, and improving the conditions for said diseases to become endemic again. You gain nothing by doing this, but your children and your society suffer. In case you’re wondering why I’m mad, here’s your fucking reason. This shit deserves no respect and should be called out and mocked wherever it occurs. If you hadn’t made it quite clear that your opinion cannot be changed, I might have been a little nicer, but as is, I don’t care enough to do so. This shit gets me mad.
Which vaccines would you like to delay and which vaccine preventable diseases would you like to help bring back? That shot your son got was probably for hep b. Hepatitis b is a very contagious disease. It can linger on surfaces for up to a week. It is administered to young babies in part because the risk of chronic infection tends to be far greater the earlier infection takes place.
Why do you think we should delay a vaccine to prevent an infection that can lead to liver failure?
Just to make sure you understand how this comparison looks . . .
I grew up in Ohio and I developed epilepsy.
My wife grew up in Kentucky and she didn’t develop epilepsy.
OMG! Ohio gave me epilepsy!
Darn you Ohio! Even though I love your amusement parks and your Buckeyes, why are you so cruel! We are moving away so my children won’t be epileptic too!
Both my kids got the normal vaccine schedule. My son is borderline ASD, and probably would be if we hadn’t worked with him before having him tested. He probably gets it from me. Our daughter is totally the opposite of him though. (Ohio hasn’t gotten ahold of her yet!)
Hey, Urbanredneck-I agree with you about those mass produced vaccines, but I’m having a hell of a time finding a source of hand-crafted certified organic gluten-free vaccines. Can you help me out?
But you’re totally fine with that young body being born? Do you have any idea the sheer number of antigens that coat every surface of our world? When you breathed “hello baby” to your child the first time you held them, you exuded a miasma of infectious agents directly into their face in far greater numbers than would ever exist in a vaccine. Worrying about the danger of antigens from vaccines is like worrying someone will dump a teaspoon of water on your head while you’re swimming in the ocean.
While I understand the logic you guys are touting about it being okay to give an injection that doesn’t have any downsides, I believe we have another thread where people are freaking out about the idea of giving a Vitamin K shot without permission, saying it would legally be malpractice. Why should this be different?
In fact, that thread makes me question the idea that they didn’t get permission. What doctor would risk a malpratice suit? I bet he and his wife gave permission and didn’t realize it.
If your kid had some sort of seizure or something from the shots, I could see that damaging the brain, and thus making the shots an indirect cause to mental problems. That possibly happened to me, and is why I chose to get tested for immunity rather than get my MMR booster shot.
Still, even having that seizure happen to me, I still am not anti-vax. I’ll admit I’m against forcing the issue when there’s not a clear and present danger, but I’m not anti-vax. I know my own experience doesn’t override the science. (Plus, while what I had seemed like I was on the autism spectrum, it has since been proven to just be strong OCD.)
Almost certainly. When you get to the hospital and sign the paperwork, there are always consents included for “tests and treatment” that cover all of the less invasive, mostly safe interventions that they do, like placing IV lines, giving you saline and medications, giving you oxygen, placing NG tubes, using SCD devices (those squeezy leg things) and other such common interventions. They are not listed individually, they are all considered as consented to as part of “treatment”. Vit K (as well as the eye goo to prevent syphilis transmission) is included in all of those.
It’s the more invasive procedures that carry a higher risk - placing a PICC line, putting in a chest tube, doing a spinal tap, etc. - that require separate signed consents. But still, if you have good reason to think the patient is going to need them, an efficient nurse or doctor is going to include that piece of paper with the stack of papers you’re signing on admission. If they don’t need it, then they don’t need it, but if they do, it’s already done.
I’d be slightly surprised if the HepB was in the blanket consent category, but only slightly. I’ve always had to sign a specific consent for vaccinations for my kids, and been handed the CDC’s information sheet with the risks and benefits on it - not because vaccines are more risky than an IV (which carries with it the real but slight risk of permanent nerve damage, infection and death), but because of the political pressure put on the medical industry by anti-vaxxers. They were pretty hurt and pissed off when they were accused of not letting people know the risks, so most places make a separate consent and handing that paperwork out mandatory now. But you don’t have to make a separate occasion of it - you can give it to parents to sign along with everything else.
So I’m guessing they did sign a consent - either as part of the blanket Consent to Treat paperwork or as an addendum that they didn’t read. Which, y’know, would not be unusual, especially in the excitement of a childbirth.
Just a sad reminder of why we need vaccines like the MMR.
Aliana is dying. She isn’t even in first grade yet. She’s dying from a nasty complication of the measles known as SSPE. This is a disease that can be totally wiped from the face of the earth along with measles. But her fellow Germans didn’t use the MMR to protect her. So she got the measles from one of them of them when she was a baby. And now she’s going to die from it.
Ahhh…but what if it’s a teaspoon of hot water!!!, you could end up with a slight scald and maybe even a little burn blister! And the distraction may cause you to swim into a rock covered in barnacles and cut yourself and then there is a chance that a shark could smell the blood in the water and eat you! or … or… maybe you’ll stop swimming and while treading water get a cramp and drown - what then!
And I bet the water was heated using power generated by a nuclear plant but you told eveyone it was a solar installation.
I see through your ruse to discredit natural water heating. You and your big-thermal pay masters!
I’m torn between responding to these accusations and giving you all just another chance to jump all over me, or to ignore and just go somewhere else.
Ok, I’ll give you all something to jump me for.
I dont trust all the studies saying vaccines are safe because alot of money is at stake on the vaccination issue. The drug companies pay off alot of people in research and government just as years ago the tobacco companies paid off alot of people to keep the dangers of smoking hidden. For example THIS article about possible CDC coverups.
On measles. Yes, an un-vaccinated kid could get the measles (extremely rare) and die (even more rare). The big risk is exposure and that is why we must always be vigilant for carriers. We should be checking vaccination records for foreign visitors and immigrants. But is the chance of serious complications from the measles any worse than the chance to choke on something or get hurt falling in the bathtub? BTW, I had both mumps and chicken pox as a kid and didnt die from it. Having them gave me immunity from them for life. it also strengthened my natural immune system. I rarely get sick from anything now except the occasional cold. Would the vaccines do that?
yes an unvaccinated kid getting measles is rare but if lots of kids don’t get vaccinated it is common. When I was young most kids got measles(before vaccines) and may died. You have to vaccinate everyone for them to work.
And if you’re basing your scientific opinions on that website instead of on what actual scientists say and publish, all of your decision-making privileges should be revoked.
