Master & Commander question (SPOILERS)

So I saw “Master & Commander” this afternoon. Great film, but I was a bit confused by all the kids on board on the ship. I know they had young cabin boys, but several of the boys appeared to be in some kind of officer-like position. I can understand putting boys on board ship as kind of an apprenticeship, but if I were an old sailor, I think I’d have problems with a 10-year-old telling me when to fire the cannons and storm the decks.

Can anyone who knows about the British Navy in the 19th century help me out?

The youngst of the midshipmen was supposed to be 13.

Young men whose family wanted them to become officers were often brought on board as midshipmen, the lowest rank of officer (officially subordinate to senior non-coms). They would learn seamanship and command and be eligible to take the test for lieutenant at age 19. They were not assigned to ships by the Admiralty but were chosen by the captains.

Remember, these youngsters were from upper class families, and the common sailor would have no great issue with following the orders of one of his “natural superiors.” Class consciousness was a basic fact of British life.

(The kids with the common seamen were often employed as powder monkeys; during battles they would be the go-fers carrying gunpowder and water to the gun crews. Their smaller size allowed them to move more quickly through the tight quarters of the gun decks.)

Thanks! I assumed, based on the actor’s looks, that Lord Blakeney(?, anyway the kid who lost his arm), was younger than 13, but with boys that age it’s hard to tell.

That’s also why it’s such a big deal that the “Jonah” is still a midshipman, huh? Very interesting.

I hope you don’t mind if I ask another question about the film. What did the ending mean? I take it that the “doctor” who gave Aubrey the sword was really the French captain. Is Aubrey worried that he will take his ship back? Or does he just want to catch the captain?

I thought it was a wonderful film as well and one of its strengths is the way it shows us a different world-view. The boys in combat, the class distinctions on the ship, the superstition about “Jonah” and so on.

The ending means that Dr. Maturin will never get a chance to describe the fauna of the Galapagos islands. Duty calls; Jack cannot leave the captain of the Acheron free to cause more mischief or to give his men a chance to rally and retake his vessel (besides, his ransom would increase the value of the prize greatly).

Jack is probably appalled at the cowardice shown by the Frenchman. What kind of man would lie to save his own skin after loosing a fair battle? No honour at all…

I’ve read that they took boys on board as young as age 10.
Not much of a childhood.

Viva, does the ending correspond to any event in the novels?
The cannon used flintlocks, BTW, and Jack prefers match.

IIRC, Aubrey has nothing against locks on the guns; he is all for modern scientific gunnery; however, he keeps slowmatch burning in tubs on the gundeck during engagements in case of a misfire.

Despite an official minimum age for midshipmen, captains would at least occasionally stretch a point and take on a younger boy, most often as a favor to a particular friend or influential person. Getting in more sea time early on meant being able to pass for lieutenant earlier, which at least offered the possibility of becoming a post captain more quickly. In many cases, as O’Brian mentions repeatedly throughout the books, boys would be carried on a ship’s books even when they were not in fact on board, “officially” accumulating sea time while still at school or at home; while very much against regulations (signing a false muster roll was grounds for dismissal from the service), it was nevertheless quite a common practice.

Jack frequently has occasion in the books to declare his preference for having no “squeakers”, no “first voyagers” on board, particularly when in command of the Surprise, she having little room for anyone not able to take full part in sailing and fighting the ship. Blakeney was pressed on him by persons he could not afford to offend. And on at least a couple of occasions, O’Brian seems to call attention to the patent absurdity of a boy of 10 or 12 giving orders to men four times his age and twice or three times his size, though I don’t recall anywhere that he has Jack reflect on this directly.

[spoiler]
As for the ending, I’d say Jack’s main concern is preventing the French captain and her former crew from retaking the vessel; this would inconvenience Jack and the rest of the Surprises in several ways – obviously Jack doesn’t want Pullings to be killed or captured, nor any of the rest of the prize crew, but something that’s not obvious from the film is the emphasis in the Royal Navy of the time on prize money. Once Pullings gets the Acheron to a convenient port, she’ll be condemned and sold, with the crew of the Surprise sharing in the proceeds (3/8 to the captain; 1/8 shared equally among the commissioned officers including the marine captain; 1/8 shared equally among the warrant officers and marine officers; 1/8 shared equally among the midshipmen, carpenter’s mates, gunner’s mates, boatswain’s mates, sailmakers, yeomen of the sheets, coxswains, marine sergeants, etc.; and the remaining fourth to be shared equally among the remainder of the crew, including seamen and marines). Even for a military vessel like the Acheron without any costly cargo on board, the proceeds would probably put more than a year’s pay into pockets of every man aboard the Surprise. And you’ll recall that the Acheron has captured several British whalers, and some of their cargo has presumably been moved into her.

If the Acheron’s captain retakes her, they stand to lose both friends and fortune. The Surprise could ill afford to send over a large prize crew to take the Acheron into a South American port (having lost many men in battle and to accident and illness), and given the custom of the times the French captain (impersonating her surgeon) would likely have been given liberty of the upper decks upon giving his parole not to attempt escape or retaking of the ship. Having deceived Jack by masquerading as a surgeon, the French captain would probably not scruple to violate his parole either, so freeing the far more numerous French prisoners below and retaking the ship would be a distinct possibility.[/spoiler]

On the issue of flintlocks vs. match locks on the guns, Jack seems genuinely conflicted. On the one hand, he is a sea officer, and as O’Brian points out repeatedly throughout the books, seamen and their officers “like what they’re used to”. Match locks were the standard in Jack’s youth, he is used to them, and he has the standard naval abhorrence of anything smacking of innovation. On the other hand, he seems to recognize the advantages of flintlocks for rapid gunnery, and the ability to fire quickly and accurately is something he prizes highly in a ship’s company. His concesssion to his irrational mistrust of the newfangled flintlocks is to keep slow-match smoldering in tubs close at hand in case the flintlock misfires.

I don’t know…I have only read the first half of the series. Well, not quite. Working on it.

I got the impression that having slow-match handy in tubs in case of mis-fires or breakage was a common occurrence- I believe C.S. Forester refers to this in several of the Hornblower novels as being SOP.

I’m not sure it’s irrational. To this day, flintlocks are tempermental and prone to misfires. Having slow match on hand to deal with this seems prudent.

Quite true. I guess what I was trying to convey was that Jack would probably have had the match tubs handy regardless of the reliability of the flintlocks, since that’s how it’d always been done in his formative years.

“Jack is probably appalled at the cowardice shown by the Frenchman. What kind of man would lie to save his own skin after loosing a fair battle?”
Actually I think Jack would be amused that the French captain has pulled off the same kind of trick that he used to win in the first place. And I don’t the battle would be considered lost until the French captain surrenders his sword (presumably he gives Aubrey a fake sword).

I get that Jack wanted to overtake Acheron to prevent her former captain from causing mischief on the way to Valparaiso.

What I don’t understand is how Maturin knew the Acheron’s surgeon had died, since the two ships’ crews had never met in person before the battle. My friend David, with whom I saw the movie, suggested that Maturin and the French surgeon would have been on the same Yahoo! Group, but I’m not sure that’s how he would have known.

He probably wanted help treating the wounded and asked for him.

“the sponger knelt on one side with his head away from the gun, blowing gently on the smouldering slow-match he had taken from its little tub (for the Sophie did not run to flint-locks)”
-Master and Commander

“Mr Parker was against any break with tradition; it would never answer in the Navy; he did not care for these flint-locks for the guns, for example; although indeed they took a fine polish, and looked well enough, for an inspection.”
-Post Captain

And to amuse you:
“Killick was there, eyeing the slow-match that was to fire the gun, much as a terrier might eye a rat or a groom his bride. A single shot would make him civil, and even obliging, for a week.”
-Desolation Island

The ending means that there are planned sequels.
It sends you out know that there are more adventures for Kirk and Spock?McCoy, I mean Capt Jack and that other guy.

Well, carnivousplant, your first quote refers to a time when Aubrey couldn’t afford to buy newfangled improvements (or his own powder) for his guns; your second to a particularly obstinate, obdurate old-fashioned master gunner (if memory serves), not Aubrey; as for the “horrible old Leopard,” it is a very old, rotten ship, and one that Aubrey takes on at pretty short notice (it’s been a while since I read DI).

I’m not saying that Aubrey is a sort of early 19th-Century proto-Jacky Fisher, but over the course of the novels, he does show willingness to embrace new ideas–witness his coming to study calculus and conical sections!

Off to work, I close with a quote from **:

“To his satisfaction, Jack found that he had inherited a better ship’s company than he had expected. The gunner had seved under Broke, learning his trade in the old Druid; two of his mates had belonged to the Surprise when Jack had her; and although Draper, his predecessor, had been unwilling or unable to spend much on powder or shot, he had at least fitted locks and sights on the nine-pounders, while his officers, a decent average set of young men, were perfectly willing to enter into their new captain’s notion of the standard of gunnery proper to a King’s ship.”

That should be "a quote from The Surgeon’s Mate, in course!