Great name choice! I know who Nzinga was and in fact used her in a Women’s History Month calender I did for a bulletin board this month (and she’s way overdue for a movie), but why the “,Seated” portion? (And do you have a harem of young men you call your “wives”? And if so, do you have pictures 
).
MrDibble, this
makes me think we have a misunderstanding between us that I have repeatedly, to use your word, tried to clear up.
I do not think I share some connection with the Khoi people. That is a good thing, since you are trying very hard to let me know there is none. I felt a connection to Sarah, and I still do. It is a good thing no one, Khoi or otherwise, owns her.
Hazelnutcoffee, I appreciate everything you said. You put it in new light for me.
I think with Black people, there may be some kind of feelings of understanding what it is like to be hated because one is black. People from the African continent from Egypt to South Africa have spoken to me as though I am a sister, or told me that outright.
Where I am from (Rochester, NY) many of the taxi drivers are from different African nations. Some members of my poetry group are from Africa. They often speak about “Sister, you should go home (Africa) for a visit sometime! You will love it so much. They will welcome you”
I think they make this gesture to black Americans because they know we don’t know where our people came from. Which is different than the experience of the Asian people. Our history is lost to us.
[hijacking even further] I’m from the Rochester area too. There’s quite a few of us on the sdmb now.
Thanks to all who like my new name. I took the task, no…the journey of choosing it very carefully. I learned her story from a friend. It stuck with me for years. I googled her last night to check to make sure she was truly black! The wiki and my friend who told me the story assures me that she is.
He was also the first to tell me the story of how when the Portuguese would not offer her a chair at a meeting, Queen Nzinga’s female servant got down on her hands and knees so that Nzinga could be seated.
Nice.
Kudos to all for a careful and mutually respectful discussion of an extremely contentious issue. I’m getting a little verklempt…
Sorry. I meant to say, I used to think of all the ones that had those physical attributes as black. Not to say that all of Sub-Saharan Africa is inhabited by black people.
I also know that those features are not universal in black people. I am saying that the people who do have those features, and are from Africa, I have always considered black. This board has fought my ignorance on that issue, and I am grateful.
Whew!
Sheer poppycock. I’m so sick of this nonsense from ostensibly intelligent people. Black is a color. In point of fact, Bantu people are only even close to objectively black when sunburned. They are no more intrinsically black than, say, the people of Southern India (who are traditionally “Caucasoid,” not “Negroid,” but are as dark as anyone on earth).
If you reject the old “Negroid” term & category (which was formulated well before modern genetic discoveries), fine. But to insist, snippily, that these people are “Blacks” while you are a “Coloured” is to perpetuate the categories of Apartheid.
In any case, the Khoikhoi mingled into the Xhosa & the Europeans to the point that the claim that modern “Hottentots” are not related to Bantu is no longer true. Or are you a San?
Actually, I think that’s a bit of an overstatement. But it still sticks in my craw that MrDibble’s doing this whole, “I’m not a Black, oh no, I’m a Khoi,” bit.
It’s a pragmatic, functional definition that nicely delineates a whole lot of cultural differences (languages, religion, cuisine etc) in one easy swoop. It’s a meaningful distinction when referring to the origin of African Americans, which was where it came up, and where I was defining it as such. If you think Southern Indians or Australian Aborigines contributed meaningfully to the African American genepool, your objection carries worth, as that was the context I was using it in.
It looks more like you’re objecting to my second definition (the one I said I never use), not the one you actually quoted. Like I said in the full post, usage is fluid. What you seem to be objecting to is classifying people based on physical appearance at all. Fine and well, very admirable, but makes a lot of this sort of culture/history talk harder, no?
Distinguising between different human groupings for discussion is not Apartheid, Apartheid is discriminating based on those differences.
No, I’m Coloured. The difference is one of culture and language more than of genetics.There are very, very few pureblood KhoiKhoi left. I, for instance, am a lot more English and Dutch than I am Khoi, as far as percentages go. AFAIK, I have no Bantu ancestry. But the pejorative Hottentot is used to refer to Coloureds, not Bantu. And Coloureds are not Bantu, and the differences are distinct, as much as this may upset you.
Would it upset you as much if say, a Scottish person insisted he wasn’t Black? Because it’s the same difference.
I understand everything you have said. I do wonder though…when those that would hurl Hottentot at those that are coloured; don’t you think they are hurling it because they see you as black. Even with all the distinctions, all the genetic science, the differences in culture, language. Don’t you think the racists are using the slur because they see you as black?
I wonder what foolsguinea said that made you think that upsets him? His post didn’t seem to suggest that he wants Bantu and Coloureds to be the same. I don’t think anyone wants that. Clearly not the Coloureds, but I’m betting not the Bantu either.
My doubts about resubscribing were banished by this thread.
In the interest of the board’s mission, I believe that it is an urban legend that racial discrimination is (or has ever been) worse in the South than in the North. Read The Negro in the North, by Alan Paton (author of Cry, The Beloved Country) for a mid-20th century viewpoint; excerpts on Northern segregation from this Wikipedia article; and portions of this paper from the Department of Economics at American University in Washington, DC. It says, “[Warren Whatley and Gavin Wright] observed a similar exclusion of blacks from high-wage jobs. William Sundstrom documented the existence of a “color line” between occupations in urban areas, both North and South, that excluded blacks from high-wage occupations”. It is understandable that the South was saddled with its reputation due to its history of owning slaves; however, it is often overlooked that they bought those slaves in Boston and other Northern markets where the slaves were imported. Pennsylvania today is headquarters for several white power groups, while Atlanta, Jackson, New Orleans, and many other Southern cities have black mayors and black citizens in seats of power.
No, I don’t, because they would use completely different slurs depending on whether you’re Black (kaffir), Indian (koolie) or Coloured (hottentot). A Coloured wouldn’t be called a kaffir, and a Zulu wouldn’t be called a hottentot. Believe me, the racial politics here is not binary. It is possible to oppress a whole bunch of people while making fine distictions between the groups you’re oppressing.
I don’t know? Maybe this?(my emphasis)
I’d say that sounds a leeetle upset.
An Interesting theory that violates everything I have read and experienced on the subject. Perhaps a good GD thread, so we do not derail this one?
Jim
I am clear on that. It makes sense. I only meant I think the racists see you all as Black, unfortunate as that title may be for some. I myself think it is a great thing to be!
As for what sticks in** foolsguinea’s ** craw, I think it has more to do with your discomfort with being considered black, than with any upset-ness at Khoi and Black being different. I think everyone is pretty much ok with that.
I hope my many questions and commments don’t lead you to believe that I am not truly sorry that my nick name offends you. 'Cause I certainly am sorry. And I thank you for some information that I sure never knew before too! I am a student first, and even if I am stubborn, I am never to stubborn to learn something new.
Welcome to the board, Nzinga, Seated.
You seem to be a delightful, intelligent woman.
I hope your stay here will be a long and enjoyable one.
I like this as the unofficial motto of the SDMB!