I work for a VERY LARGE organization. My wife has recently submitted an application to work for a completely separate component of the same organization. Tho the components are quite separate, I know, have worked with, and am on reasonably good terms with several relatively highly placed individuals in the branch to which she is applying. I have no idea how much - or if at all - it would help (or hurt) my wife’s chances if I were to approach these folk to put in a good word for my wife.
I have told my wife that I know such-and-such persons, and would be happy to get in touch with them. She has not told me not to, but neither has she asked me to. The topic came up the other day during a dinner party (another guest works for the same organization, and offered to act as a reference). My wife didn’t really say anything, but the other guest said something along the lines of “I understand the desire to get the job entirely on your own merits.”
Me - I don’t. In terms of things like getting a job, IMO the only thing that maters is getting the job. And I think one ought to use every advantage one has. But I’m hesitant to impose my ethics on my wife or anyone else.
Any thoughts of this scenario? Ought I directly ask my wife if she wants me to talk to these folk? Or ought I approach them without asking her?
My current tendency is to sit tight and see how things play out. Let me know if any other info would help you form your opinion
My first reaction is to let things play out at least through the first round. While I can see colleagues discussing a candidate and providing informal references, this is your wife and not a colleague. Have you ever worked with her and truly know her as a professional?
I wouldn’t approach them without her explicit OK on that. However, do ask her point blank if she would like you to contact them. This is her thing and she should be able to determine how she goes for it.
Out of curiosity, do you have the same last name as her?
What good would it do? If I was the hiring manager and knew she was your wife I’d be inclined to disregard anything you say. She’s your wife and I have no idea if you think she’s really worth it for the job or if you were just saying it to be loyal. If you didn’t tell me she was your wife and praised her and I find out, I’d be doubly suspicious. The most I think you can do is mention, “Hey, my wife will be applying for that job ____. Just an FYI.”.
Yeah - we have the same last name. Which is somewhat unusual. So if it ever gets to these people I knw, they will certainly ask if she knows me. And I’ve checkd - there are not anti-nepotism concerns with respect to her being hired.
In terms of what good it could do. The position reports to decision-makers in one of 4 local offices. I know several of the decision-makers in each of the offices, and the chief decision-maker in one of the local offices. The individual I am probably on best terms with is the chief decision-maker for the entire 5-state region, essentially the top guy for all of these offices. I not only have letters of appreciation/commendation from him in my file, but used to spar martial arts with him. Tho we are “friendly aquaintances” rather than friends, I think we respect each other both professionally and personally, and mutually understand that we would not BS each other.
I have no idea what role - if any - he would normaly have in this hiring process, other than signing off on the final hires. And I’m not sure exactly how he would respond to a call from me - tho I am quite confident it would not redound to either my wife’s or my disfavour. But I am confident that if he did choose to say “hire person X”, person x would get hired. If I were applying for a job, I would think that the possibility of such a recommendation would be more likely to help my chances than hurt.
My wife and I are both attorneys, and have been married over 20 years. I’m pretty confident that she is a better lawyer, and would most likely be a better employee than I. At least I’m reasonably sure she wouldn’t spend as much time as I on the Dope!
She would be exceptional at this job. So I while I do not wish to deny that I would benefit personally from her getting the job, I also feel I would be helping the organization by bringing to their attention an extremely qualified candidate. I’ve got no idea how they will be evaluating applications, but I can imagine her being a woman in her late 40s who has not worked full-time for the past 2 decades (but has worked part-time in law and teacing that entire time) may not exactly be huge factors in her favor to whomever is processing the applications.
If I were in her position, I would be happy to accept anything that might improve my chances. But I am not in her position. Which is why I am soliciting input.
If she wasn’t good for the job, really wasn’t, would you tell him? Does he know this and believe it? If he does you might have a chance of convincing him.
Probably not, tho I would hope such a situation would never arise.
For one, despite my many disagreements with my spouse, one constant is my respect for her intellectual capability and professionalism. So I don’t see her being truly horrible for any job I can imagine her applying for.
I consider it pretty unlikely that any of these folk will ask me if I do not contact them. So if I felt she was ill-suited for a position, I would simply keep my mouth shut instead of offering info.
I’m not sure what I would say if asked directly. While I would not wish to be known for recommending someone who is truly meritless, neither would I wish to submarine my wife’s desires. I could imagine a combination of trying to deflect the inquiries from my colleagues, while at the same time suggesting to my wife that the particular position is not one that suits her well.
Every time I’ve been associated with a hiring decision, when faced with an onslaught of faceless applications, I have always thought it of at least some minimal value to hear someone I know, like, and/or respect recommend a certain person. And I have never thought less of the applicant or recommender for receiving such info. Seems to be pretty common to hear, “If you know of anyone who would be good for/interested in this position …”
I was thinking more along the lines of just offering a simple “heads up” as someone suggested above, instead of trying to “convince” him. Either give him a call, e-mail, or stop by his office and say, “Hey Bob, just wanted to let you know my wife Ms. Dinsdale applied for one of the posted positions. I think she’d really be a welcome addition to your team.” Some BS like that. But I suspect I will do nothing.
Kalhoun is right about asking your wife point blank … she needs to say Yes, go ahead, or No, I’d prefer that you didn’t.
If you get a green light, I would go ahead and mention it to the fellow you know. Personally, in my field (which is not the law, so YMMV), a fairly casual approach is best – all you need to cover is:
FYI my wife applied for this position
she’s excited about the prospect of working with (name of company)!
There’s no point, really, in saying anything else unprompted. She’s your wife, presumably you won’t say awful things about her. If he/the hiring committee wants more information that they think you could provide, they know how to reach you.
In some ways, it is a courtesy to the people on the hiring committee, because let’s say in a worst case scenario, they think she is awful, at least they won’t embarrass themselves by talking about how awful she was in front of you. Not that I think your wife is awful, but in general I think people are more comfortable when they have the big picture.
Funny, I was just chatting with a colleague, and he thought I was crazy for even hesitating a moment before calling everyone I possibly could. He had no concern over whether or not she wanted me to, because it was “for her benefit.” Said she would never know, and said I culd even ask the folk I talk to to make sure they don’t let it be known that I contacted her.
Neither here nor there, but this particular guy is a conservative jew who knows I am an atheist, we frequently discuss religious/philosophical/ethical matters, and I get the impression he is VERY concerned with doing what is “right” within his philosophy.
Interesting how differently different people view this.
I think there are two different issues: what does your wife want? and how should you do it, if you do.
The first is the most important - if she doesn’t want you to do it, and makes that clear, then you shouldn’t. End of story. If you’re not certain if she wants you to do it, you should clarify this point before doing anything.
If she’s okay with it, then I think you have to make it clear to whoever you contact that she’s your wife. If you try to recommend her without letting the other person know about the personal connexion, it could screw things up for both her and you.
I think it all depends on ‘why’ your wife wants this job. For me personally I would be pissed as hell if my wife put in a good word for me. I would want to get the job by my own merits. If I am good enough they hire me and if there is a better person for the job, so be it.
In my office we have several married couples and they all got hired by their own portfolios. In the design profession you are your portfolio–it is the body of your work. Either it is a fit or it isn’t. But if I found out that Bob had Sue hired or put in a good word for her–I personally would think less of both of them. If Sue is any good she needs to make it on her own–otherwise I would always question her talents and wonder if she got the job because of Bob.
I will have to ask my wife tonight her thoughts on this–but my suspicions is she would be similar. You get to know your spouse after awhile and we tend to think along the same lines.
Let’s say your wife is okay with it–you put in the good word. They hire her and it doesn’t work out (work with me here–let’s say it just isn’t a good fit). Does that not put you in an awkward situation? Again for me it would. If I hired some guys’ wife on his recommendation or word, and it didn’t work out–it would change my relationship with that guy. No question about it, I would always be second guessing him after that point. Is he telling the truth here? Or is this like the time he told me how great a job his wife would do?
Oh, you’re looking at X Company? Yeah, I know who your boss would be. He owes me a few favors. Don’t worry, I’ll give a call over there and we’ll set everything up.
and
Oh, you’re interested in X Company? I think you’d fit in great. Let me pass your name along to the hiring manager and we’ll see if we can get an interview.
This environment is COMPETITIVE. In every field, everywhere. You may be the most qualified person at the job but if that guy weeding through resumes accidently has two stuck together and flips by yours or is watching a YouTube video and zones out when trying to read yours, you’re SOL.
No, I don’t like being handed a job. That’s really awkward and puts an unneeded burden upon you of not letting down the guy who got you the job. And I want to get the job on my own merits. Most everyone does. But I also won’t hesistate to have someone put in a good word for me.
The way I figure it, if someone wants to put in a good word for me, then that’s a pretty clear reflection their view of my qualifications and merits. It’s still me getting the job, even if someone else helped magically float my resume up off the slush pile.
I’m in complete agreement here. provided your wife has no real objection, say something. Yeah, they might think you’re biased, fine. Let them make that distinction. The fact that you also work there, to me would say that when you make a recommendation - wife or no - that you’re putting your good name on the line for this person.
I love my wife to pieces (at least that’s how I picture her in the cornfield… kidding folks, settle down ), but I’d never recommend her for a job where I worked unless I knew she’d do it well.
This was what I found interesting about my discussion with my co-worker. In his opinion, it was sufficient that I thought it was in my wife’s interest, that I need not even ask her is she wanted me to. I’m not sure if we hit this precise point, but I think he would advocate doing it even if she expressed her preference that I NOT. I was not comfortable with that.
But it does suggest to me a somewhat interesting abstract ethical question regarding your obligations/duties if you know/believe someone would prefer that you do X, but you are confident that Y would be “in their best interest.”
IMO&E, as unpredictable as everything generally is, it is pretty much always best to be able to fall back upon openness and honesty. Whether or not she gets the job, if it ever came up in the future I think I would always prefer to be able to say, “Remember, we discussed this, and you expressly said you wanted X, and I acted consistently with your clearly stated preference.”
Well, we differ pretty considerably here. If I wanted a job and thought I was at least minimally qualified for it, my sole interest would be in getting that job through just about any means that were not clearly unethical. I wouldn’t really care about any other candidate. I assume they are doing whatever they can do improve their chances.
Why does she want the job? Well, she stopped working full-time when our 3d kid was born. Now that that kid is headed off to college, she is interested in returning to full-time work. But a 47 year old who has not been working full-time does not seem to have too many people beating down her door.
This particular job would pay well, and the location, hours, benefits, etc. would well suit our lifestyle choices. As opposed to other jobs that would require considerably longer and less flexible hours, less convenient locations, lower pay, etc. If she put in 5-10 years, she would be vested in considerable retirement bennies of her own, as opposed to simply what she could get as my beneficiary.
And, I’ve worked for this organization for 22 years, and am CERTAIN that she would do a fantastic job for them. But, for all I know whoever is shuffling the applications might put some premium on recent grads from certain schools, or some other factor she could never meet. In the many hiring waves I’ve experienced, it seems x% of the people are looking for ther next job from day 1, y% are looking for a comfortable job while they start a family, and z% just don’t work out or are minimally competent. To the extent I know a particular candidate woul dnot fit into any of those categories, I think I would be helping the organization.
Working out over lunch I ran into one of my friends in one of the offices. He was of the opinion that there was no reason why not to put in a good word. Then in the elevator coming up to my office I ran into the top guy I know. We shot the breeze very pleasantly. When he asked how my family was, it would have been a perfect opportunity to say with my kids all off to school my wife was looking into full-time work, and had put in an applic with his shop. But I refrained from doing so until I spoke with her.
Think I’ll also run this by our ethics officer, just to make sure everything is on the up and up.
And I can see why that would be. A Lawyer and an Architect are two very different professions. In mine, my innate abilities as a designer are what I have to offer, the differentiator of ‘me’ from other Architects. There is a non-tangible aspect of it that is often not present in other types of work. I do the usual Project Manager roles but it is the artistic side of me that would be upset I think. My design abilities are a very personal part of me. The closest analogy I can see would be a woman who felt she was hired for her looks or her body. Yes you got the job–but was it for the right reasons? And I would be questioning myself throughout my time there.
However given all that, I am also saying all of this as someone who has 25+ years of recent experience. If I was in the position you describe your wife to be–methinks I would have a much different perspective. Good luck on this and hope it turns out well for you and her.
The one thing you don’t want is for your silence to speak for you and work against your wife’s chances. Is there a possibility that the hiring manager could run across her resume and think “Mrs. Dinsdale? Is she Dinsdale’s wife? I wonder why he didn’t mention she was applying? Maybe he thinks she would be a bad fit.”
It’s something to consider when you talk about it with her and she decides what she feels comfortable with you doing.
That’s an interesting thought and worth considering. But I doubt it would really occur here. I don’t know the folks who are processing the applications, or the manager who is most likely going to be making the final decision. However, at least some of the folks I know, if they told the hiring manager “hire this person” - or more likely, “give this person’s materials a close look” - that would be done.
And, if not during the interview process if she got hired, at some point SOMEONE would ask her - “Hey, are you related to that cranky old bastard up on 30? The guy who’s always surfing the web when he should be working!”
