[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] Dio, you’re getting excessively rah-rah over this. Military service in a volunteer army is a job, like any other. Sure, it comes with a greater risk of injury than, say, dentistry, but I don’t see you stumping for NFL teams to provide educational grants to players with career-ending injuries. I don’t see anyone doing it for police officers, either, and I’m pretty sure they face much the same risk of crippling injury or death that military personnel do.
Romanticizing the military leads you down messy roads. They’re not baby-killers. They’re not “heroes”. They’re just soldiers, and you say the word in the same tone as you would “engineer” - a respectable profession, no less, and no more.
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I was in the military, and believe me, I don’t romantacize it. It’s not “a job like any other,” though. The people aren’t any different, but the job is.
[QUOTE=magellan01]
As has been pointed out to you numerous times in this thread by numerous posters, this childish appeal to sympathy is lame and not even worthy of discussion. If there is a bill that puts forth the idea that a kid who gets his leg blown off should get a free college education, we can discuss it, and I’d probably be 100% on your side.
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There is such a bill. It’s the Webb bill. McCain publicly opposed it and did not show up to vote on it.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I was in the military, and believe me, I don’t romantacize it. It’s not “a job like any other,” though. The people aren’t any different, but the job is.
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How, exactly? Other than the increased risk of injury or death I mentioned (which I suspect is not increased at all in peacetime), what makes a paratrooper any different than a postal worker?
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
How, exactly? Other than the increased risk of injury or death I mentioned (which I suspect is not increased at all in peacetime), what makes a paratrooper any different than a postal worker?
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Postal workers sleep in their own bed and get to see their family every night.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright] So do most soldiers. Travelling account executives don’t; how about them?
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I would imagine traveling account executives are compensated quite well.
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger]
I would imagine traveling account executives are compensated quite well.
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You’re missing the point. What makes it important that we fund a soldier’s degree but not anyone else’s? Besides, some soldiers make pretty good money - and once out of the military, a lot of them make very good money.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
You’re missing the point. What makes it important that we fund a soldier’s degree but not anyone else’s?
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I dunno - the fact that they’re asked to (possibly - though at this point in time, more than likely) put their lives on the line for their country while 99% of other occupations aren’t? Seems like a reasonable incentive to me.
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird]
I dunno - the fact that they’re asked to (possibly - though at this point in time, more than likely) put their lives on the line for their country while 99% of other occupations aren’t? Seems like a reasonable incentive to me.
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Again, how does this make them any different than police officers, firefighters, athletes…
Well, are police officers and firefighters sent to combat zones for years at a time where they’re away from their families and under constant threat of violent attack?
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird]
Well, are police officers and firefighters sent to combat zones for years at a time where they’re away from their families and under constant threat of violent attack?
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Not normally, but then neither are most soldiers. When they are, they get combat pay and Family Separation Allowances.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Not normally, but then neither are most soldiers. When they are, they get combat pay and Family Separation Allowances.
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Oh, I know. I was in the Army. The fact is, though, lower enlisted ranks don’t make shit in the military - I was eligible for food stamps as an E-4 - and with a war going on, I think it would behoove the military to offer as many incentives as they can to get people to enlist (I know I’d much rather have my taxes going for VA benefits than many of the bullshit costs of the war they’re currently being spent on). Do they have to offer education funds? No. But since it’s been part of the GI Bill since any of us have been alive, it would be idiotic to rescind it now and not expect the troops to be pissed (or stop enlisting).
[QUOTE=woodstockbirdybird]
Oh, I know. I was in the Army. The fact is, though, lower enlisted ranks don’t make shit in the military - I was eligible for food stamps as an E-4 - and with a war going on, I think it would behoove the military to offer as many incentives as they can to get people to enlist (I know I’d much rather have my taxes going for VA benefits than many of the bullshit costs of the war they’re currently being spent on). Do they have to offer education funds? No. But since it’s been part of the GI Bill since any of us have been alive, it would be idiotic to rescind it now and not expect the troops to be pissed (or stop enlisting).
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I don’t disagree with any of that. My point is not that we should do away with the GI Bill, but that people get all misty-eyed and irrational when you start talking about anything “for the troops”. As I understood it, the competing proposals are over ways to improve the existing (Montgomery) GI Bill, not get rid of it.
I certainly don’t believe we could improve recruitment to meet existing quotas, let alone meet new ones, if we spend less money. I just don’t think that saying, “then you’re against the troops!” in response to any criticism of military personnel spending is productive.
Put another way, Dio wants Injured Soldier Jones, Jr. to get a scholarship to Georgia Tech because he got his legs blown off. I want him to get a full scholarship to make sure his younger brother enlists when he reaches majority.
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy]
May we add the boners committed by his campaign? If so, this Daily Kos thread has a collection of product reviews posted on the site selling McCain campaign stuff, until someone finally noticed just what kind of comments they were and disabled the feature.
Warning: For proper monitor maintenance, clear oral cavities of all liquids before reading.
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Holy fuck, that’s funny!
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Again, how does this make them any different than police officers, firefighters, athletes…
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I think that in the usual case, assuming you mean professional athletes, these people are members of unions. Nothing except common sense prevents them from petitioning their unions to make college educations a part of their union contract. And really, maybe they should, provided they are disabled in the discharge of their duties.
[QUOTE=LouisB]
I think that in the usual case, assuming you mean professional athletes, these people are members of unions. Nothing except common sense prevents them from petitioning their unions to make college educations a part of their union contract. And really, maybe they should, provided they are disabled in the discharge of their duties.
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Actually, I hadn’t really thought about that. Is there any law that prohibits members of the armed forces from unionizing?
(I’m sure they’re prohibited from striking, for obvious reasons)
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Actually, I hadn’t really thought about that. Is there any law that prohibits members of the armed forces from unionizing?
(I’m sure they’re prohibited from striking, for obvious reasons)
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I don’t know about US military but IIRC, the Dutch Army (or the Holland Army, if that’s more PC) were and maybe still are unionized. Maybe the EM should check it out.
So do most soldiers. Travelling account executives don’t; how about them?