MD/VA dopers - illegal to ask for phone #?

[bup]

I have been told that it is illegal in Maryland and Virginia for store merchants to ask for your phone number for a credit card sale.

Is that true?

What if the merchant asks for everybody’s phone number, regardless of payment type?

[PatriotX]

I don’t know if it’s illegal, but some places in VA do it.

[Who_me_1]

They do in Maryland too.

[Horatio_Hellpop]

I’ve been asked twice. Once at MicroCenter in Merrifield, and once at a shjoe store at Tyson’s.

A firm “no” is accepted cheerfully. Never heard that it’s illegal, though.

[Who_me_1]

@bup

What if the merchant asks for everybody’s phone number, regardless of payment type?

Forgot to answer this…

If they ask, I’ll just tell them no. If they insist, I’ll shop somewhere else.

[Gfactor]

Here is the Maryland statute:

§ 13-317. Use of consumer identification information in connection with credit card payments.

(a) Prohibition.- Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, as a condition of accepting a credit card or device as payment for consumer credit, goods, realty, or services, a person may not record the address or telephone number of the credit card holder.

(b) Exceptions.- A person may record the address or telephone number of a credit card holder if:

(1) The information is necessary for:
(i) The shipping, delivery, or installation of consumer goods; or
(ii) Special orders of consumer goods or services;

(2) Authorization from the credit card issuer as to the availability of credit is not required by the issuer to complete the credit card transaction; or

(3) The person processes credit card transactions by mailing transaction forms to a designated bankcard center for settlement.

© Request for identification.- A person accepting a credit card or device as payment for consumer credit, goods, realty, or services may request that the credit card holder display a form of identification.

[1990, ch. 171; 1995, ch. 505.]

http://198.187.128.12/maryland/lpext.dll/Infobase/9c15/cb92/cc5f/cdac?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0

According to this, states with similar provisions include:

    * California
    * Delaware
    * Georgia
    * Maryland
    * Massachusetts
    * Minnesota
    * Nevada
    * New Jersey
    * New York
    * Pennsylvania
    * Washington, DC
    * Wisconsin

[Cliffy]

If so, the Best Buy near my house is in big trouble.

I have no idea whether the claims is true or no, bup, but I’m skeptical because it’s supposedly in both Maryland and Virginia. This is something that would be goverened by state law, so it’d be weird that it’s legistlated in the same way in both states – especially these two states which are extraordinarily diverse in most legal contexts.

–Cliffy

[MannyL]

What about the situation with a certain place that sells turkey and beef sticks at kiosks during the holidays with the initials HF where I work part time asks everyone for their ph# does this still apply?

[Polycarp]

The key is “as a condition of acceptance.” They can ask. And you can refuse. And they cannot refuse to accept your credit card payment because you refused; that’s what the law prohibits.

[Gfactor]

Found this, too:

When I make a purchase, can they ask for my address or phone number?
This is a complicated question. There are two possible sources of an answer: Federal and state law, and the policies of the card-issuing organization.

Law: There is no Federal law on the subject. According to Bankcard Holders of America, the laws of CA, DE, GA, MD, MN, NJ, NV, and NY prohibit recording personal information in connection with credit card transactions. Note the word “recording.” Strictly interpreted, this means they can ask you to show a driver’s license but can’t write anything down from it.

Policy: According to letters from

Director of Public Affairs and

Visa USA Inc.
P.O. Box 8999
San Francisco, CA 94128-8999

MasterCard International
888 Seventh Avenue
New York, NY 10106

Merchants are not allowed to refuse a sale made by Visa or MasterCard solely because the customer refuses to provide additional personal information. According to Bankcard Holders of America, the same is true when you use your American Express card, but not when you use Discover.

If merchants have “sufficient” reason to suspect you are not the authorized card holder, they may ask for further ID. This exception rarely comes up in real life, and even if it does they must not write the information on the Amex, Visa, or MC charge slip.

There is a Legal Research FAQ published by Mark Eckenwiler, eck@panix.com it can also be found in misc.legal in usernews groups. (return to Index)

http://www.creditinfocenter.com/cards/crcd_buy.shtml#Question2

[Gfactor]

@MannyL

What about the situation with a certain place that sells turkey and beef sticks at kiosks during the holidays with the initials HF where I work part time asks everyone for their ph# does this still apply?

Depends. There is an exception for a merchant that:

processes credit card transactions by mailing transaction forms to a designated bankcard center for settlement

and another for a merchant that:

Authorization from the credit card issuer as to the availability of credit is not required by the issuer to complete the credit card transaction

[bup]

That makes perfect sense.

They can ask, but not disallow the sale.

Thank you.

[Guinastasia]

What about writing checks? Every place I know requires a phone number if you write a check.

[FatBaldGuy]

@Guinastasia

What about writing checks? Every place I know requires a phone number if you write a check.

Writing a check is a whole different matter than using a credit card. When you use a CC for payment, the merchant can instantly get authorization from the CC company. If the authorization goes through, the merchant is off the hook for liability.

With a check, on the other hand the merchant has no way of knowing whether the check will clear until it hits your bank. Some merchants use electronic check verification services, but they aren’t foolproof. They can reject your check if you have a prior record of bouncing checks, but they don’t have access to your bank account balance. Even if they did, they don’t know about the 7 other checks you’ve already written which will hit your account before theirs does.

Bottom line, the store needs to be able to contact you if the check doesn’t clear. That’s why they normally require your address & phone number to be pre-printed on the check, and they usually write down your drivers license number as well. All perfectly legal AFAIK.

[Scarlett67]

@Cliffy

If so, the Best Buy near my house is in big trouble.

This seems as good a place as any to mention what happened to me this weekend.

Was out shopping with Mr. S and decided to pick out the hardware for the satellite radio subscription I’d promised him for Christmas. Found one on sale at Best Buy, with an “instant rebate” of $20. Got up to the checkout, plunked down my debit card, and the cashier wants my phone number. Why? I inquire. She gives me some line about how “the computer” wants it, for the rebate or something. OK, fine, I reluctantly give it. Next “the computer” wants my driver’s license number and address.

WT everloving F?

Again, “the computer” had to have it. Something about signing up for the subscription. But I’m going to sign up for the subscription at home, online, when I’m good and ready. Nope, she has to have it. Guess again, I say. Cancel the transaction. And we walk out.

Went over to Target and bought a similar device, no questions asked.

Seriously, WTF? The display on the item said nothing about the sale being tied in to signing up for the subscription RIGHT HERE TODAY. What if it was a gift? What if I wanted to look over the subscription plans and decide later? Sounded like a scam to collect my info, and Target gave me no guff at all.

[Gfactor]

@Guinastasia

What about writing checks? Every place I know requires a phone number if you write a check.

They can ask for your phone number, but in some states, they can’t write your credit card number on the check.

§ 13-318. Use of credit card information in connection with payment by check.

(a) Definitions.-

(1) In this section the following words have the meanings indicated.

(2) “Drawer” means the individual who makes or signs a check or other draft.

(3) “Draft” does not include a credit or debit card sales draft.

(b) Prohibitions.- Subject to the provisions of subsection (c) of this section, as a condition of accepting a check or other draft as payment for consumer credit, goods, realty, or services, a person may not request or record the account number of any credit card of the drawer of the check or other draft.

(c) Exceptions.- The provisions of this section do not prohibit a person from:

(1) Requesting the drawer to display a credit card for purposes only of identification or credit worthiness;

(2) Requesting or recording the type or issuer of a credit card of the drawer; or

(3) Recording the number and expiration date of a credit card if the person requesting the information has agreed with the credit card issuer to cash checks as a service to the issuer’s cardholders and the issuer has agreed to guarantee payment of cardholder checks cashed by that person.

[1990, ch. 172; 2005, ch. 25, § 13.]

http://198.187.128.12/maryland/lpext.dll/Infobase/9c15/cb92/cc5f/cdb8?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0#JD_cl13-318

Here is a summary of similar laws in California: http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs15-mt.htm

[Nawth_Chucka]

Here in SC, at a hair salon- the lady at the register asked for my phone # before waxing my brows and I told them I don’t give that out. “Well, you have to give it to us for me to do the transaction.” I asked if there wasn’t any way for the clerk to get around that and she said there wasn’t. She was paralyzed by the demands of the computer. We went back and forth a bit w/ the same argument for a couple of minutes before I just got up and left w/o getting my brows done.
There is a way to go around that ‘requirement’ - what if I didn’t have a phone #? Unlikely, but possible.
Sheesh, why do they think the ‘do not call’ list is so popular? I didn’t put my # on it just to give it out some more. :rolleyes:

[asterion]

I have asked for additional identification under the exception (I believe) as given in Gfactor’s quote. One is if the gender of the name doesn’t match the person giving me the card. This allows me to check if the person giving me the card is related in some way to the name on the card, generally child or spouse. The card will then be accepted, especially if the name is not one of the very common surnames. The other is if the implied ethnicity by the name does not correlate; for example, a white guy giving me the card with a Chinese name on the card. That’s generally enough to get a person with a stolen credit card to give up and leave.

[Tim_T-Bonham.net]

@Portia

There is a way to go around that ‘requirement’ - what if I didn’t have a phone #? Unlikely, but possible.

Just tell 'em your phone number is 555-1212. It always works for me. (Computer System Designers who are too stupid to include an override for people without a phone number are almost always also too stupid to include checks for special numbers like that.

[bdgr]

I used to give Radioshack their own phone number and address for this kind of stuff. They never once noticed.