That’s a pretty big subject. Care to sum it up in layman’s terms?
Demonstrated by who? What experiments? (Please don’t say James Randi…)
Demonstrated by nobody. And no experiments. Can’t you read?
I’ll give you one simple example. If you can see a ghost, you can only see it because light is hitting matter. No matter = no image. What is the light hitting when you see a ghost? Give me a hypothetical explanation about how an immaterial object can reflect light.
And on top of it, I was referring to his “Yeah, like germs are impossible…atoms are impossible…the sun at the center of our solar system is impossible,” statement, which, if he could read, he might’ve seen in the quotation directly above my reply. I don’t know everything about the history of science but I don’t recall reading about any experiments that demonstrated that atoms are impossible.
Your presumptions are way off. Human beings perceive light because of electrochemical processes in the brain. Most of it, yes, comes from photons bouncing off matter and stimulating the eye’s retina at a certain electromagnetic frequency (a very NARROW frequency, as well all know) which our brain processes as sight. It’s not a perfect system – check out this optical illusion, where the “A” and “B” squares are exactly the same color, even though they appear different. Things are not always as they appear – that’s where the word “apparition” comes from, after all.
My point is…just because a ghostly image appears in your vision with no discernable correlation to matter does NOT necessarily mean it doesn’t exist. Sure, 95% of the time, that movement you see out of the corner of your eye, or that creepy hand that brushes against your shoulder, is just a glitch in the system. But sometimes…well, let’s just say, the human brain is an exquisitely complex organ, perhaps far too complex for us to ever understand fully. All I know is, I’ve experienced some weird shit in my time, and I know people who have experienced some equally weird shit, and to write it off as “hallucination” or “coincidence” is just a cop out. And just because science can’t “prove” the existence of ghosts and spirits doesn’t mean it never will. Give it time.
Wait, Marcus was supposedly visible? I must have missed that. I know he was supposedly tangible via temperature, but I don’t recall if he supposedly objectively effected temperature (as in, could be measured by a thermometer), or was instead possibly only detectable via, shall we say, permuting certain people’s perceptions of the environment.
A spectre whose only interaction with observable reality is via the minds and altered perceptions of mediums would be rather harder to smack down with Newtonian disproofs, I would think. If there’s something I’ve forgotten that refutes that, I’d be interested in being corrected. Not that I need a proof to not believe in the things, but it would be good to know if one existed.
This is not to say that your argument is worthless; you’ve just run up against the problem that “ghost”, like “God”, means different things to different people - some people’s definitions being more readily disprovable than others. Your argument works poorly against Marcus (if I recalled correctly about his invisibility) but rather better against the ‘spectral photography’ lot - assuming they believe their ghosts to be entirely and consistently nonphysical, anyway. 
But the primary question of this thread is… when Meenie makes her claim, particularly in a way which has none of the obvious trappings of hucksterism (she is not trying to make a profit or convince us she can put us in touch with dead loved ones, nor does she seem to care if we believe her or not) is a more useful response “you are lying or insane. So either I hate you for lying or you should go seek medical help RIGHT NOW” or “I don’t believe you. Is there some way you can prove this claim?”.
The scientific problem with Marcus is that there has never been an intelligent being who exists apart from a physical body. It would be proof that humans have souls that contain their identity, which can exist separately and independently from the human body. This is such a radical departure from what we understand to be the facts of human life that it qualifies as an extraordinary claim. If it is true, it should be able to be demonstrated via an objective experiment. Most human beings, including atheists, who would love for this to be true and provable. It never has been proven, despite it being a great hope and dream of humanity. It’s not as KGS says, that people are running around saying “Souls are impossible!” out of stubborn ignorance, despite ample objective proof, like those who argued against the sun being at the center of the universe. It’s that souls can’t be proven by any of the means we now possess, and if they are perceivable by regular means, as meenie7 claims, they should be. A logical conclusion from this is that they do not exist but are explainable by other means, such as mental or neurological illness, or prevarication. End of story.
I just looked at your linked image 100 times. By your logic, five of those times it was a ghost—and not a phenomenon of the brain’s visual processing—that made the A and B squares appear to be different shades of grey?
Actually, that’s exactly what it means. If it’s an illusion, it doesn’t exist. If it’s only a product of the “brain’s visual processing,” based on no external interaction of light and matter, that’s called a hallucination.
What does Marcus “see” with, by the way?
Ah, come on. I agree with you in that I think there’s no ghost and that if she does experience Marcus, it’s probably a sign that Meenie has some mental dysfunction, but seriously, you know what she’s going to say to that…that neither she nor Marcus know what he sees with, but that he sure can see well enough to enjoy Wall-E, but that he didn’t like it as much as Finding Nemo.
I’m not even arguing with meenie with that question. I’m responding to the question about specific ways in which “ghosts” are incompatible with physical laws. If an immaterial entity cannot interact with light (and it can’t unless it’s made of matter), then it can’t see.
If the answer is that these things aren’t operating in the physical world, then that’s the same as saying they don’t exist.
As I recall, though I’m not about to wade through a few long threads to verify it, yes, Marcus, and the other ghosts meenie7 perceived, was visible.
That is true, to the extent that Newton, despite his interest in alchemy, did not address it, only explaining that we see things because light reflects off them. A seemingly simple theory that presumes a physical existence to all we see, but he didn’t come up with relativity or quantum mechanics, either.
Wouldn’t it be cool? Unfortunately the question “Wouldn’t it be cool?” is only limited to certain provinces on the SDMB and the original thread was moved out of one of them.
I do not believe Marcus is real. I do not believe in ghosts. I am fully aware of the need to provide proof for a claim as momentuous as Meenie’s, but thanks for pointing that out, again.
But, as KCS says, Marcus may be ‘real’ to Meenie, in which case a visit to a neurologist or a psychiatrist might be in order. Telling her she’s either lying or deluded, and Pitting her for it is the problem I have with this thread. Telling her she might have a brain tumour? Yeah, the Pit is the place for that.
Oh, no sorry. I was just being a doof and referring to my post on page 1 or 2 telling meenie not to waste her breath.
Ah, but this thread (apparently) isn’t a pitting of meenie for being lying or deluded of full of shit, it’s for everyone in the other thread who didn’t flat out say meenie was lying or deluded or full of shit.
Aren’t we forgetting one? Should could really be the son of God…
I didn’t pit her, and you AGREE that she’s either lying or deluded. What other choices are there?
There’s nothing insulting about telling someone they might have a brain tumor.
It’s NOT a tumor. At all.
Why must everyone assume the worst when somebody has an imaginary friend? Personally, I blame Stephen King. You start talking about imaginary friends, they instantly think of The Dark Half or Secret Window and worry that you’re going to start chopping up babies and dangle naked from a flagpole. :rolleyes:
I agree that Meenie’s friend is most likely a delusion – but he’s a benign delusion. They share a symbiotic relationship. People have benign delusions all the time – just ask anyone who believes in guardian angels, or the non-fundie Christian who says, “Jesus walks with me.” Happens all the time. So what if their interpretation’s a little off?
Sure, Meenie has issues. She’s even admitted as much. But as long as Marcus isn’t telling her to cut her wrists or that the FBI is beaming government secrets directly to her brain, I don’t see an immediate problem. Besides, shrinks are expensive.
Yes, Mr. Governator! 