Meenie7's invisible friend

[Freudian_Slit]

[QUOTE=KGS]
She’s already seen a neurologist. Her CAT scan was negative. Since then, she hasn’t presented any new symptoms that would indicate her “problem” is anything more than psychological. “What’s the harm,” you ask? How about time and money? Besides, you guys are just badgering her at this point.
[/QUOTE]

Maybe there’s some new problem. Or maybe there’s some other test he would’ve given her if he’d known she was having hallucinations.

I don’t know, maybe it’s just me, but I’d see hallucinations and/or delusions as a fairly serious symptom.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

[QUOTE=KGS]
I’m not the only person here who’s accused Diogenes of acting like an asshole. Isn’t that part of the subject? When the subject deals with a person, isn’t it within bounds to discuss that person’s motives and behaviors?

She’s already seen a neurologist. Her CAT scan was negative. Since then, she hasn’t presented any new symptoms that would indicate her “problem” is anything more than psychological. “What’s the harm,” you ask? How about time and money? Besides, you guys are just badgering her at this point.
[/QUOTE]

She said she did that seven years ago, and that she didn’t tell them about her hallucinations even then. Seven years is a long time for something to continue to develop and get worse. It’s also quite possible they could have missed something the first time. Going back (and being honest about all symptoms) can’t possibly do any harm. NOT getting checked out might kill her.

[Rubystreak]

[QUOTE=KGS]
I’m not the only person here who’s accused Diogenes of acting like an asshole. Isn’t that part of the subject?
[/quote]

No, the subject is meenie7 and the people Diogenes perceived as enabling her in her lie/delusion/illness/whatever the fuck it is. Address his points, not his personality. ISTM your points have more than adequately been rebutted by several posters and you really do not know what you’re talking about with regard to science or psychology, so instead you go after Diogenes personally, trying to take attention away from the actual topic. It’s really poor rhetoric and shows that, really, you’ve got nothin’.

When the subject deals with a person, isn’t it within bounds to discuss that person’s motives and behaviors?

Oh for chrissake. Diogenes is not the subject of this thread. You and others have tried to change the subject to be about him, but it simply isn’t. You’re changing the subject into an ad hominem attack on Dio, and that tactic is generally used when one has nothing relevant or intelligent to say about the actual subject.

Besides, you guys are just badgering her at this point.

She’s probably not reading the thread anymore, and if she is and at any point she does not want to hear what we have to say, she can stop reading anytime. No, what we’re doing is demolishing your logically flawed arguments and pointing out that you’re changing the subject. You can stop any time you like.

[KGS]

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Oh for chrissake. Diogenes is not the subject of this thread. You and others have tried to change the subject to be about him, but it simply isn’t. You’re changing the subject into an ad hominem attack on Dio, and that tactic is generally used when one has nothing relevant or intelligent to say about the actual subject.
[/quote]
Stop hiding behind your rhetoric. Dio started this thread as a personal attack on meenie’s belief system. He accused her of being a liar, or crazy. He was rebuffed on both counts. Now, he’s stuck on this whole “brain tumor” nonsense, like he can’t admit he was wrong. He’s been calling her delusional, but as far as I am concerned, HE is the one who is delusional. That’s a proper topic for debate, is it not? Wassamatter, he can dish it out but he can’t take it?

And what’s wrong with Diogenes seeing a stress therapist, anyway? What’s the harm?

She’s probably not reading the thread anymore…

I gathered as much.

[Rubystreak]

[QUOTE=KGS]
Stop hiding behind your rhetoric.
[/quote]

Stop making personal attacks and address the points that were made on the topic. I am not going to get into a discussion of Diogenes’ personality with you. Start another thread, or better yet, drop it entirely.

He accused her of being a liar, or crazy. He was rebuffed on both counts.

Not at all. I think variations of those two possibilities are the only possible explanations for Marcus, as do many others in this thread.

He’s been calling her delusional, but as far as I am concerned, HE is the one who is delusional. That’s a proper topic for debate, is it not? Wassamatter, he can dish it out but he can’t take it?

It’s a hijack of the thread. Can’t you stay on topic? Wassamatter, can’t actually address the rebuttals of your utterly baseless points?

[KGS]

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
I think variations of those two possibilities [lying or crazy] are the only possible explanations for Marcus, as do many others in this thread.
[/QUOTE]
There are infinite possibilities, many of which have no bearing on her honesty or mental health. If you want to label her “crazy”, then by your definition, every religious person is crazy. Every person who believes in auras and chakras is crazy. Every person who’s encountered a paranormal phantom, something which can’t be described by physical means, is crazy. Oh, wait…that is what you believe, isn’t it?

[Grumman]

[QUOTE=KGS]
There are infinite possibilities, many of which have no bearing on her honesty or mental health. If you want to label her “crazy”, then by your definition, every religious person is crazy. Every person who believes in auras and chakras is crazy.
[/quote]
There’s a difference between believing that God/ghosts/auras/chakras exist, and believing that you are actually seeing them.

Every person who’s encountered a paranormal phantom, something which can’t be described by physical means, is crazy.

Unless you have some Earth-shattering evidence that you aren’t sharing with us, I have to disagree with your suggestion that anyone has ever encountered a paranormal phantom.

[Rubystreak]

[QUOTE=KGS]
Oh, wait…that is what you believe, isn’t it?
[/QUOTE]

Cite? Do you even know me? Personal attacks is all you do, isn’t it. This is getting old and I can see there’s no finding rapproachment with someone who argues like you do.

Also, what Grumman said. He’s fresh, maybe he can argue with you for a while.

[Measure_for_Measure]

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
I think variations of those two possibilities are the only possible explanations for Marcus, as do many others in this thread.
[/QUOTE]
Just to clarify the two possibilities are deception and delusion. Deception includes, “…a fun situation put forth by a fiction writer that spiraled out of control”, as one poster noted (my paraphrase). Or a self-promoter who made the mistake of lingering in the thread after it got moved to GD.

Delusion includes having a, “…desperate need to be special, combined with a tendency to self-delusion or suggestibility, and be surrounded by people willing to enable your delusions by saying polite things in support when you talk about them”, as Sam Stone posited.

If we’re going to talk in circles, we shouldn’t drop key points of the argument, at least without examination.

KGS: Have you noticed any air between the OP and some of Diogenes later posts? Some of his requests for professional evaluation were fairly reasonable.

And frankly a 7 year old CAT scan doesn’t sound especially reassuring, given that she never shared her stories about Marcus with a mental health professional.

For all I know it might be harmless: I say this because I am not a Doctor. But I can’t see how an evaluation would be a bad idea, unless the deception hypothesis applies. She could always tell those concerned and proximate to her that she’s making a medical visit just to be safe - or heck, she could say she’s going for a checkup.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

[QUOTE=KGS]
Stop hiding behind your rhetoric. Dio started this thread as a personal attack on meenie’s belief system.
[/quote]

No I didn’t. I couldn’t care less about her belief system. I started the thread out of irritation with people humoring a person who was either lying or deluded.

He accused her of being a liar, or crazy.

That may be a crude way to put it, but that doesn’t make it less true. Those are still the only two options available.

He was rebuffed on both counts.

“Rebuffed?” Not really. Argued with, maybe. I was certainly not rebitted, if that’s what you mean.

Now, he’s stuck on this whole “brain tumor” nonsense

What makes you so sure that it’s nonsense? I’m not “stick” on a brain tumor, by the way. I just suggested it as one possibility that should be ruled out. Ypou’re the one who’s been fixated on it.

like he can’t admit he was wrong.

What was I wrong about?

He’s been calling her delusional

No, I’ve been saying that’s one of two options. I still think deception is a robust alternative.

, but as far as I am concerned, HE is the one who is delusional. That’s a proper topic for debate, is it not? Wassamatter, he can dish it out but he can’t take it?

I’m delusional because I don’t believe in ghosts? That’s a new one.

And what’s wrong with Diogenes seeing a stress therapist, anyway? What’s the harm?

No harm at all. It has no bearing on the accuracy of my statements in this thread, though.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

[QUOTE=KGS]
There are infinite possibilities, many of which have no bearing on her honesty or mental health.
[/quote]

Name one. Everything you’ve suggested is just a variation on one or the other.

If you want to label her “crazy”, then by your definition, every religious person is crazy. Every person who believes in auras and chakras is crazy.

We’re not talking about beliefs. We’re talking about objective statements about reality. I don’t think anyone who believes in Jesus is lying or delusional, but I do think that a televangelist who says an 80 foot Jesus told him he’s going to die unless people send him money is either lying or delusional (with lying as option A).

Every person who’s encountered a paranormal phantom, something which can’t be described by physical means, is crazy. Oh, wait…that is what you believe, isn’t it?

How about a cite for a single person ever encountering a “paranormal phenomenon.”

[Zoe]

DTC: Sure, but humoring her is not of any value in any of those scenarios.

Throughout the thread you have sounded equally as contemptuous of the delusional as you have the liar. Did you intend to convey that or did I miss part of the thread where you showed some compassion? Is it true that modern psychiatric pratice is opposed to ever humoring a delusional person?

What if the delusional person could understand that what he was seeing was delusional – perhaps caused by a tumor or medication – but it still frightened him never the less? If what he saw terrified him and he begged the doctor not to make him look at it, why shouldn’t the doctor humor him?

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

[QUOTE=Zoe]
Throughout the thread you have sounded equally as contemptuous of the delusional as you have the liar.
[/quote]

I disagree.

Did you intend to convey that or did I miss part of the thread where you showed some compassion?

I did not convey that, and every post I’ve made about her getting checked out has been compassionate. I haven’t said one disparaging word about mental illness, except the use of the word “crazy” in the OP.

Is it true that modern psychiatric pratice is opposed to ever humoring a delusional person?

I don’t know, but I know they don’t encourage not seeking out treatment and I know that nobody here is qualified to engage in any kind of “therapeutic humoring” on an internet message board.

What if the delusional person could understand that what he was seeing was delusional – perhaps caused by a tumor or medication – but it still frightened him never the less? If what he saw terrified him and he begged the doctor not to make him look at it, why shouldn’t the doctor humor him?

Because maybe it would be necessary to save the patient’s life? I don’t know. I do know that even if there is a therapeutic reason to humor psychiatric delusions, the posters on this message board are not the ones to be doing it. Since when did you guys all anoint yourselves internet psychotherapists? Where does anyone here get off deciding that she doesn’t need to see a doctor?

[KGS]

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I’m not “stick” on a brain tumor, by the way. I just suggested it as one possibility that should be ruled out.
[/quote]
We heard you the first time. And the second. And the third. And the fourth. And the fifth. And so on and so on…

I’m delusional because I don’t believe in ghosts? That’s a new one.

No, you’re delusional because you can’t recognize that somebody with an unusually hyperactive imagination can be a functional, stable member of society. You believe that any person with moderate social problems is as dangerous to themselves or others as a schizophrenic drooling in the corner and pissing his pants. You keep saying that meenie could have a very serious neurological condition, and yet you have shown not one iota of compassion or respect towards her. And you somehow believe that this makes you a nice guy, and you’re only trying to help her, when in fact you are acting like a complete and total asshole. That’s what makes you delusional, and the people who stick up for you are merely enabling your delusion. This isn’t the first time you’ve acted this way, either. This has been consistent behavior on your part as far back as I can remember.

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Name one. Everything you’ve suggested is just a variation on one or the other.
[/quote]
Well shit, if you’re gonna put it that way…I guess any possibility could be conflated into one or both of those categories, yeah. Even if Marcus really IS a ghost, wouldn’t she still be judged “crazy” by today’s social standards? “Crazy” is a malleable definition, after all.

I’ll let you in on a little secret. You wanna know why people like John Edwards and Sylvia Browne can make so much money by lying to people? Because people WANT to be lied to. People WANT to believe in the afterlife, they WANT to believe there’s some higher meaning to the seemingly random events that happen to them. They WANT to believe there is some purpose to it all. And they’d rather swallow the lie (and spend a little money, if necessary) for the sake of comfort and complacency. THAT is why the paranormal industry continues to thrive in an era of logic and scientific method, and it’s not gonna change anytime soon. People would rather be ignorant than lonely.

Meenie wanted a friend, she couldn’t get one in the real world, so her subconscious mind lied to her, and she accepted the lie, and she eventually forgot that the lie existed in the first place. That’s a clumsy way to put it, but essentially it’s true. However, whether it’s a lie or not doesn’t matter. The ONLY thing that matters is how it affects her ability to function in normal society, and as far as we can tell, she functions well enough to get by. So I ask you again – what’s the problem?

…and every post I’ve made about her getting checked out has been compassionate.

Bullshit. You are mocking her condition and deliberately fearmongering. Stop denying it.

I haven’t said one disparaging word about mental illness, except the use of the word “crazy” in the OP.

Come to think, the word “crazy” is extremely disrespectful towards people with mental illness. The fact that you have work experience with mentally ill patients, and are directing that word towards someone you believe is mentally ill, makes it even worse.

Because maybe it would be necessary to save the patient’s life?

You’re fearmongering again. Knock it off.

[Rubystreak]

[QUOTE=KGS]
No, you’re delusional because you can’t recognize that somebody with an unusually hyperactive imagination can be a functional, stable member of society.
[/quote]

You again show a lack of understanding of what the word “delusional” means AND of Diogenes’ position in this thread. Straw man argument to go with your ad hominem.

You believe that any person with moderate social problems is as dangerous to themselves or others as a schizophrenic drooling in the corner and pissing his pants.

Straw man. Please show where Diogenes said this.

You keep saying that meenie could have a very serious neurological condition, and yet you have shown not one iota of compassion or respect towards her.

Why does it matter to you if he shows her your idea of respect? Is he right that she should get a medical check up? That would constitute an iota of compassion, possibly more than those who have humored her and enabled her have.

Meenie wanted a friend, she couldn’t get one in the real world, so her subconscious mind lied to her, and she accepted the lie, and she eventually forgot that the lie existed in the first place. That’s a clumsy way to put it, but essentially it’s true. However, whether it’s a lie or not doesn’t matter. The ONLY thing that matters is how it affects her ability to function in normal society, and as far as we can tell, she functions well enough to get by. So I ask you again – what’s the problem?

Do you honestly think, in the situation you’ve outlined above, that there is no problem? Wow.

[Ensign_Edison]

I wonder if Dio is drunk posting half the time and scrambling to cover for it the other half.

[Rubystreak]

[QUOTE=Ensign Edison]
I wonder if Dio is drunk posting half the time and scrambling to cover for it the other half.
[/QUOTE]

Except that he makes total sense in this thread, so your cheap shot, while fun for you no doubt, was meaningless except as a “me too” to an ad hominem thread hijack.

[Ensign_Edison]

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Except that he makes total sense in this thread, so your cheap shot, while fun for you no doubt, was meaningless except as a “me too” to an ad hominem thread hijack.
[/QUOTE]

Oh my god…ad hom in the pit! No way! You’re right. Whatever was I thinking.*

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I agree with his overall position in this thread, so your neener-neenering about me-tooing is way off base.

Do you truly find no inconsistencies in how he’s presented it, going from insults and vitriol one moment to insistence he’s being perfectly nice and reasonable the next? It’s a common pattern for him. My wondering wasn’t a joke; I am seriously convinced something weird is going on with Dio based on this and many other instances in which he comes off like two totally different people from one post to the next.

*NOOOOO NOT SARCASM IN THE PIT TOO!

[Rubystreak]

[QUOTE=Ensign Edison]
Oh my god…ad hom in the pit! No way! You’re right. Whatever was I thinking.*
[/quote]

Your concern for Diogenes is touching, really. And drive by ad hominem attacks are great contributions to an already 13 page trainwreck. Good show, sir!

Sorry to rain on your parade, but I agree with his overall position in this thread, so your neener-neenering about me-tooing is way off base.

Since I was the only one to respond to you, I don’t see how I’m “me too” ing. No, that was you, jumping on the Diogenes Hater Bandwagon and totally not addressing the point of the thread. Can’t help but point out that you’ve contributed nothing to this thread but “me too” and “neener” yourself, so, yeah, you’re “I’m rubber, you’re glue” line ain’t working too well.

I am seriously convinced something weird is going on with Dio based on this and many other instances in which he comes off like two totally different people from one post to the next.

Why not open a thread about it, then? If you’re so concerned. And make sure your tone is consistent throughout, always completely altruistic and well-intentioned, without a sliver of vitriol… if that’s the standard you’re going to hold him to in a 13 page thread. Go for it.

[Ensign_Edison]

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Your concern for Diogenes is touching, really. And drive by ad hominem attacks are great contributions to an already 13 page trainwreck. Good show, sir!
[/quote]

What concern? Where did I show concern? I never said I was worried about him.

Since I was the only one to respond to you, I don’t see how I’m “me too” ing. No, that was you, jumping on the Diogenes Hater Bandwagon and totally not addressing the point of the thread. Can’t help but point out that you’ve contributed nothing to this thread but “me too” and “neener” yourself, so, yeah, you’re “I’m rubber, you’re glue” line ain’t working too well.

Try to read more slowly next time. I was referring to you accusing me of me-tooing. In context, what I said (“your neener-neenering about me-tooing is way off base”) clearly meant ‘Your accusation of me-tooing against me is inaccurate, because I agree with Dio’.

Why not open a thread about it, then? If you’re so concerned. And make sure your tone is consistent throughout, always completely altruistic and well-intentioned, without a sliver of vitriol… if that’s the standard you’re going to hold him to in a 13 page thread. Go for it.

I’m not concerned. That’s an interesting way of arguing you have there. You’ve taken one statement, that he seems like different people from post to post, and jacked it up as much as possible to be a complaint that Dio has failed to show absolutely perfect control. Did you have any comment on my actual statements?