There are several moments when you can hear them talking over each other.
What world do you live in? The one where all women who get abused one minute say ‘I’m outta here!’ the next, then simply leave, just like that? This betrays such a fundamental misunderstanding of the dynamics of emotional (and physical) abuse I’m not sure where to begin. Surely all women can’t be lying about how long they’ve stuck in abusive relationships. What were they waiting for?
Somebody that knows what the fuck I’m talking about.
Because it has no relevance. It changes nothing. It offers no justification for the abuse. It does not make her less of a victim. It’s not worth speculating about.
How long is a long time? She stayed with him longer than Oksana stayed with Mel. He was in Vietnam for part of it. When he got back from Nam, he was even crazier and more violent than before he left. When we tried to leave, he chased us to her mother’s house and tried to break the door down. Batterers are at their most violent and dangerous when their victims are trying to leave. He was standing outside the house screaming about how many gooks he killed in Vietnam and how he was going to kill her too. Until the cops came and got him.
He also used to beat the shit out me, by the way, Starting when I was three days old. He used threats to to kill me to keep her from leaving for a long time. He did stuff like dangle me from the top of staircases threatening to drop me. When she tried to tell people what he was really like, fucking assholes like you would accuse her of lying, being hysterical, overeacting, making things up, etc. He never showed his crazy self to the outside. If Oksana didn;t have these tapes, you’d be calling her a liar.
I don’t like the question because it’s not relevant to anything, and it’s chickenshit deflection away from the real criminal.
I don’t know exactly when she left him, but if you think it means anything that a victim stays with an abuser then you just don’t know shit about domestic violence.
He admits it on tape.
You don’t know what you’re talking about. At all. On any level. Victims staying with their abusers is the norm, not the exception. And once again, He fucking ADMITTED IT ON Tape. It’s not speculation. It’s a fact in evidence.
I didn’t say anyone was defending the abuser. All I’vce said is that it’s bullshit to attack the victim.
I take it you have issues too. Sorry for that. But to simply lump everyone in the same box and say that abused women are all the same, that they all act the same, and follow a predictable pattern is just not true. For instance, women of means would have more options than women without means. Are you all telling us that an abused woman stays around regardless of financial circumstances because the abuser is bigger than that? I don’t think so. If Mel is smacking her around while she’s holding the child, why on earth would she have to stay for 5-6 months? Since you dismiss this question, why don’t you answer your own question for me… what exactly ARE they waiting for?
Nobody is saying that all victims are the same. You’re the one who’s saying there’s a correct way for a victim to act. We’re telling you that it’s extremely COMMON for victims to stay with abusers for a long time. Nicole Simpson did. She was probably even a gold digger.
Maybe if she would have just blown OJ before the hot tub . . .
That was Kato’s job.
Yeah, and OJ did not kill his wife. He killed his EX-wife. He also killed a stranger simply because he was male and with OJ’s EX-wife. Nicole stayed with him for a long time, but she left him for good. What happened was her EX-husband’s choice.
Well, I for one, don’t. I don’t think I’m alone. You rant and rave about the abuser, but any questions regarding Oksana are off limits because you say they are. That’s bullshit, sir.
It offers no justification for the abuse, I agree… but it may bring in the question of why she stuck around as long as she did. Are you telling me that all abused women all follow the same playbook that your mom did? You have no idea. You don’t know what was in Oksana’s head. So, it is worth speculating about. It will never justify the abuse, but that’s not the same question, is it?
That’s a sad story, but it doesn’t justify your mom packing up you and any siblings and going back home with the guy. Going back just re-enforces bad behavior. I don’t give a shit about your dad being in Nam. It doesn’t justify him treating you or your mom badly, does it? According to you, nothing justifies it. And I agree. But at the same time, nothing justifies a woman taking her children back into a harmful (physically or emotionally) situation. I know she’s your mom and you view her as your protector, but she owed you more than going back.
You don’t know shit about me, how I was raised, or if I was in a similar situation that you were. So calling me a fucking asshole might make you feel better, but you are reacting with emotion, not with logic. I’d say you have anger issues, just like your friend Mel. And if we were on the phone instead of typing on a message board, I think you would lose control, just like Mel does. You can’t even maintain control on this message board. You foam at the keyboard at this issue, like you are the only person that has the correct answer. You aren’t.
Bullshit again, Dio. It’s not a deflection. It’s a legitimate question. Just because you don’t like the thought of her not having the best interest of her child in mind, but perhaps what she could get out of Mel as her number one priority doesn’t fit your mold of the abused mother. You have some deep seeded issues on this topic. Your situation doesn’t mirror every other situation out there. Grow up. Life sucks for many of us. But if you think I’m going to let an abused woman with children off the hook for going back to the abuser, you are mistaken. Because I do know what I’m talking about.
Sadly, I know more about it than I’d like to. I may know more about it than you. You aren’t the only one who had a bad childhood or a dick for a father.
Again, you attack the messenger and ignore the message. You said yourself up thread that Mel will probably pay a nice sum to make this go away before going to court. For a 40 year old unmarried woman with a bastard child and money coming in, I’m sure whatever Mel coughs up will be taken with both hands. She may say she doesn’t want any of Mel’s money, but let’s see if she takes it when it’s offered.
I’m not going to tell you my story to prove to you I know what I’m talking about. I know I do. I also know that you are impossible to have a rational conversation with because you live in your own little space, full of anger and self-righteousness. Victims may stay with the abusers as a norm, but it’s not an absolute. And the truth is, your mom didn’t have to go back. She made that choice. From my point of view (and I have one) there is no choice. When you become a parent, your first and main obligation is to your child.
I haven’t attacked the victim. I’ve asked one question about how long she kept the tapes. If you don’t think that’s a question that would come up in court, you are naive.
You certainly don’t.
I didn’t say they were off-limits, I said they were irrelevant,
No, retard, I’m telling you that it’s unremarkable when they do. It’s common. It’s not evidence that they aren’t being abused. You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.
Nor do I care. It’s not relevant.
Yeah, it pretty much is the same question.
Holy fucking Christ, you are a scumbag. Goodbye.
Just for the record, though. My mom DIDN’T Go back, and I never said she did. That was one of the last times I ever saw my sperm donor.
I don’t want that to be taken as any kind of agreement that women who do go back are culpable in their own abuse, though. You admit that staying is the norm, so I dfail to see why you think you can draw any conclusions from it.
You don’t know shit about domestic violence. That’s obvious.
Either do you. The scary thing is that you THINK you do. All Hail Dio, champion of abused women everywhere!
Your arrogance is only outpaced by your ignorance. You’ve been a member since 2002, and your 16.61 posts a day since you’ve joined is certainly impressive. It doesn’t, however, make you knowledgeable on any topic. It just makes you loud.
Tell you what. When you write your book on DV, let me know. In the meantime, I’ll wait for some more of your statements of absolutism, Mel. But no matter what, I am not blowing you before you get into the jacuzzi. I’ll leave that to one of your worshipers.
ETA: Where did I mention that most women go back to their abusers? I did no such thing, because I don’t know that nugget of info. I’d figure you would, though.
I have worshippers? That’s news to me. My wife sure isn’t one of them.
I never said that you said that that. I said that you admitted women staying with their abusers is the norm. Here’s what you said:
Christ, this is like arguing with my mother in law. I said it “may be the norm.” I don’t know the statistics. I’ve never said I did. I say “MAY”.
Sorry for any confusion.
It’s very much the norm. Now you know.
Just so I understand completely, can you provide a cite?
And can you tell me why your own situation did not mirror this pattern?
If I show you a cite, will it cause you to reevaluate your view of anything?
My mother’s situation did mirror the pattern for several years, largely because he always threatened to hunt us down and kill us if she tried to leave. Abusers do not mean those threats idly, and they are at their most dangerous when their victims are trying to leave. That’s when they kill instead of just hitting.
Okay this is completely anecdotal, no cite available but I’ll tell you why some women stay.
My first serious relationship started after I was posted to Ottawa. I was all grown up having turned 18 while in basic training and god I was out to prove it. I started dating a guy on base and all was wonderful for a while. He got sent to a base north of Quebec City on a language course for a year so we decided I was going to move off base so he could stay with me when he visited.
The first trigger was my roommate. Ottawa is a bit expensive on a brand new privates salary so I advertised and chose a young reservist name Liz. Liz was wonderful. Confident, friendly, just a great person to have around and D hated her. She stayed completely out of our way when he was there but he never stopped running her down. So we started with just verbal abuse, undermining my confidence, making me doubt my own decisions, lying about conversations we had til I thought I was going insane.
He arrived unexpectedly one weekend and it must have been on purpose as it was a 5 hour drive from his base. When he arrived, I was in the kitchen and Liz was in the bathroom getting ready to go out. Her two friends from the apartment downstairs were in the living room (both male) waiting for her. D came in and lost his ever-loving mind. Screaming about me cheating, at them to stay away from me and at Liz for being the terrible slut who was causing all the problems. I was afraid he was going to hit Liz so I bundled the three of them out, sure that when I explained and when he realized I was clearly not dressed in the same club gear the other three were he would realize the truth. Instead he locked the door, ripped the phone out of the wall and beat the crap out of me. I am still convinced that the only thing that saved my life was the neighbor who hear me screaming and stood at the door pounding and saying he had called the police.
Now for the why women stay part. As I recovered in the hospital I had a steady stream of visitors who all told me to my bruised and battered face how sorry he was and how I should forgive him. A year later the prosecutor dismissed the charges, not because there was no evidence, but because if they didn’t he would lose his security clearance. It took me years to regain any confidence at all in my own judgement. Years and a terrible marriage to a completely passive aggressive jerk who felt “safe”.
This was a big part of what drove me out of the air force after my 3 year contract was up, he had been posted there for years and there was a lot of “there goes the girl who ruined D’s life” going on. Now this was the mid to late 80’s but it still happens.
Abuse is a progression, rarely do they just start whaling on you, first they break your spirit so you think you deserve it. I think D jumped the gun and hit too soon and that made it possible for me to escape. Not easy, but possible.
No woman, particularly one who is vulnerable to gold digger claims could fail to know that unless she’s got proof there are many who just won’t believe her. Hell she’s got proof and still Mel is free, Robin is defending him and people are saying she deserves it.
I haven’t seen this mentioned, but the revelation of Robin’s declaration that Mel wasn’t violent adds some authenticity to the theory Adam Carolla posited when this first came out. Many 50+ action stars in Hollywood are on enormous amounts of Human Growth Hormone (HGH) in an effort to get their aging physiques in bettershape for the camera. Look at IMDB - ole Mel has suddenly been back in front of it, so it makes sense. Think what raging adolescent hormones would do to a nutcase that didn’t get his daily pre-Jacuzzi blow job, and the roaring and huffing and puffing make a lot more sense. It’s a fascinating theory to me, and I think he may be on to something. Not that that excuses the mysogonistic bigot ragaholic, mind you, but it does offer a theory as to why it got turned up to 13, not 11, as it was when the first tape came out.
I have reported this post to a mod. This is not appropriate language here. At least have the decency to add a “fuck” when in the pit. 
More than a year ago I posted a pit thread about Marlene, my childhood friend and the daughter of my mom’s best friend.
After enduring physical abuse at the hands of her husband, she left. When she left, he stalked her. When he stalked her, she went into hiding. When he found her, she decided to leave the country (leaving her child with her abuser with her mom, she couldn’t take the baby without his permission). The day before she left, he kidnapped her, and even though he had a loaded gun (legal permit, mind you), he methodically, and slowly beat her to a bloody pulp.
When the homicide detective found her body he didn’t recognize her, even though he was Marlene’s childhood friend, long-time neighbor, and former brother-in-law (from her first marriage). He found out it was Marlene from her documents. Leaving, and divorcing him, did her no good whatsoever, it actually probably got her killed a lot faster. We’ll never have answers because the fucker killed himself too.
And this.