"Men are getting weaker" and 60s entertainment

[Gatopescado]

@Ukulele_Ike

Did you just…quote Terry-Thomas?

Yes!

[Dumbguy]

@Kimstu

Similarly, it is not sexist bigotry to say “Men feel threatened when they’re told they shouldn’t be in charge of everything” (though I think the way jz78817 phrased it was needlessly adversarial and irritatingly clumsy).

The quote was “yes. men get pissed off and defensive whenever someone suggests they shouldn’t be in charge of everything”, and then Exapno Mapcase doubled down by saying “They sure do. Loudly. All the time.”

Phrasing matters, doesn’t it? YMMV. but to me this seems deliberately provocative and designed to short circuit a conversation rather than starting one. If what you mean is “a lot of men” or “some men” or “most men” or “the traditional expectations of the male role in patriarchal western society” you’d say that, or clarify when asked. For what it’s worth, I don’t think Exapno Mapcase meant that at all. “Sure” and “loudly” and “all” are strong, purposeful words, and I think they mean exactly what they seem to mean.

And while I get your distinction between things that groups do and things that groups are under pressure to do, there’s no fucking way I’d ever dream of saying “Blacks worry that dating a white person is on some level a betrayal of their people”, and I kind of suspect that outside of a hypothetical on an anonymous message board you wouldn’t either.

[JcWoman]

@Exapno_Mapcase

We hear a lot of talk today about white privilege but in the U.S. it’s really a set of four interlinked privileges: white, male, straight, and Christian. Until incredibly recently the default depiction of an American had all four. Books, movies, plays almost invariably started with a white, straight, male, Christian and built around him, with white, straight, Christian women as love interests, helpmates, or mothers. That mirrored history and contemporary reality. Despite the tiny percentage of exceptions, politics, academia, industry, religion, banking, science, journalism, and every other area of power and influence were dominated by white, straight, male Christians. Ironically, the women’s movement, though it greatly overlapped the abolitionist movement, was infuriated that black males had received the vote before white women.

Very interesting observation, especially the bolded part. While reading it I was thinking that we’ve changed quite a lot since then, based on the persecution of young black men in our society, but then it occurred to me that we got a black male president before a white female president. But speaking as a white woman, that doesn’t bother me at all. The only white female presidential candidate at the time, simply wasn’t as good a choice to lead the country (in my opinion). When we get one, I wouldn’t hesitate to vote for her. Just like I voted for Obama because I felt he was better than Clinton.

Similarly, in 1950, the leading Canadian women’s magazine Chatelaine published an article provocatively titled “Man, the Vanishing Sex.” The author, Fred Bodsworth, warned the magazine’s female audience that men were in danger of disappearing altogether, due to the contemporary situation, which, in his view, held men in thrall to dominating and domineering females.

Some of this attitude persists today. A couple years ago we had some friends over, a married couple. For whatever reason, they got to haranguing me about why I married my husband. Because he is reliable and takes care of me? No, I have a well paying career and can take care of myself. Because he can help me care for children? Nope, neither of has has or wants kids. They kept on with the usual suggestions that I NEEDED him, all of which I explained how I didn’t NEED him. I simply WANTED him. They wouldn’t let up until we got to the suggestion that I married him for his dick. Not the case, although it’s definitely one of his “charms”. I don’t know why it’s so hard for some people to understand that you can choose to share your life with a specific person merely because you love him and want him. Men aren’t going to disappear from obsolescence. That idea is based on the idea that we all have to use each other and if the other person isn’t useful to you, there’s no sense in marrying him. That’s offensive to me. I love him because I like and respect him. No other ulterior motives.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

Black men also got the vote before white (or any) women, too, so if nothing else Obama sort of follows a timeline.

[Derleth]

@Kimstu

For example, it is not sexist bigotry to say “Women are afraid that not getting married will mean they’ve ‘failed’ as a woman”.

Yes, it is, when it’s phrased that way.

But the point is that the societal pressure on women to feel that way is universal in a sexist society.

But that isn’t what you said.

It’s the difference between claiming all blacks are criminals and claiming that there are malign subtexts in media marketed to blacks which glorify criminality. The first is about the people, the second is about the society.

Similarly, it is not sexist bigotry to say “Men feel threatened when they’re told they shouldn’t be in charge of everything”

Yes, again, it is, for the same reasons as above.

[Derleth]

@Exapno_Mapcase

Nope, in the myriad ways that men turn woman into inferiors. It’s not a stereotype; it’s an observed fact about societal behavior.

Welcome to the social sciences. They’re real, and they’re spectacular.

If you’re talking about society, talk about society. Otherwise, it’s bigotry, and we don’t want it here.

Trying to cover yourself with social sciences is disgusting. They are real, they are spectacular, and they refute every single one of your bigoted assertions.