Men at Arms and the origin of the word 'Politican'

[Just1Lurk]

From Terry Pratchett’s Men At Arms:

“Have you ever wondered where the word ‘politician’ comes from?” said the Patrician.

Earlier in the book, Carrot had made a big deal about the fact that policeman comes from the world ‘polis’, i.e., a policeman is a ‘man of the city.’
What is the point Vetinari trying to make? That a politican is an ‘ian’ of the city?
Ponder Stibbons, I bet you have some idea…

[Graycat]

-ian
suff.

1. Of, relating to, or resembling: Bostonian.
2. One relating to, belonging to, or resembling: academician.

I think he is saying that a politician is also a “man of the city” ; thus the Patrician and the watch have the same interests and goals.

[Little_Nemo]

Poli - a multitude of

Tics - blood sucking parasites

[LurkMeister]

And they often speak in an auditorium:

Audi - I hear

torium - the bull

[Just1Lurk]

Originally posted by Graycat:
I think he is saying that a politician is also a “man of the city” ; thus the Patrician and the watch have the same interests and goals.

Well, that’s what I thought he meant. I think I was hung up on the idea of ‘ian’ meaning related to or resembling. I have a hard time imagining Vetinari would describe *himself * as resembling Ankh-Morpork.

**Little Nemo, LurkMeister: ** As the Patrician would say: Ah, a pun or play on words. How…droll.

[silenus]

@Just1Lurk

**Little Nemo, LurkMeister: ** As the Patrician would say: Ah, a pun or play on words. How…droll.

I think Vetenari would just…look at them, silently, until they felt the urgent need to be elsewhere. After they were gone, he would permit himself a small chuckle of appreciation for their wit.

[BrainGlutton]

From the Online Etymological Dictionary, http://www.etymonline.com/p7etym.htm:

police - c.1530, at first essentially the same word as policy (1); from M.Fr. police (1477), from L. politia “civil administration,” from Gk. polis “city” (see policy (1)). Still used in Eng. for “civil administration” until mid-19c.; application to “administration of public order” (1716) is from Fr., and originally referred to France or other foreign nations. The first force so-named in Eng. was the Marine Police, set up 1798 to protect merchandise at the Port of London. The verb “to keep order by means of police” is from 1841; policeman is from 1829. Police state “state regulated by means of national police” first recorded 1865, with ref. to Austria.

<snip>

policy (1) - “way of management, government, administration,” c.1386, from O.Fr. policie (14c.) “civil administration,” from L. politia “the state,” from Gk. politeia “state, administration, government, citizenship,” from polites “citizen,” from polis “city, state,” from PIE *p(o)lH- “enclosed space, often on high ground” (cf. Skt. pur, puram “city, citadel,” Lith. pilis “fortress”). Meaning “plan of action, way of management” first recorded c.1406.

<snip>

politic (adj.) - 1427, from M.Fr. politique (14c.) “political,” from L. politicus “of citizens or the state, civil, civic,” from Gk. politikos “of citizens or the state,” from polites “citizen,” from polis “city” (see policy (1)). Replaced in most adj. senses by
Political (1551). The verb meaning “to engage in political activity” is first recorded 1917, a back-formation from politics.

politics (n.) - 1529, “science of government,” from politic (adj.) (q.v.), modeled on Aristotle’s ta politika “affairs of state,” the name of his book on governing and governments, which was in Eng. 1450 as “Polettiques.”
“Politicks is the science of good sense, applied to public affairs, and, as those are forever changing, what is wisdom to-day would be folly and perhaps, ruin to-morrow. Politicks is not a science so properly as a business. It cannot have fixed principles, from which a wise man would never swerve, unless the inconstancy of men’s view of interest and the capriciousness of the tempers could be fixed.” [Fisher Ames (1758–1808)]
Meaning “a person’s political allegiances or opinions” is from 1769. Political animal transl. Gk. politikon zoon (Aristotle, Politics, I.ii.9) “an animal intended to live in a city; a social animal.” Politically correct first attested 1970; abbreviation P.C. is from 1986.

politician - 1588, from politics (q.v.). Colloquial abbreviated form pol is attested from 1942. Alternate form politico (usually in a derogatory sense) is attested from 1630, from It. or Sp. politico, noun use of adj. meaning “political,” from L. politicus (see politic).

polity - 1538, from Fr. politie (1419), from L.L. polita “organized government” (see policy).

“L.”, of course, means “Latatian.”

[GuanoLad]

@BrainGlutton

“L.”, of course, means “Latatian.”

And “Gk.”, means Genua/Klatchian ?

[sciguy]

Funny, I just finished this the other day and had been wondering the same thing.

I think it was Pratchett (not necessarily Vetinari) going for the poli (city) + tic (blood sucking) + ian (resembling/related to) joke.

[Just1Lurk]

Originally posted by sciguy:
I think it was Pratchett (not necessarily Vetinari) going for the poli (city) + tic (blood sucking) + ian (resembling/related to) joke.

I’m not sure I agree with that. When Pratchett makes a pun, you *know * it.

As I look at it again, maybe Vetinari’s trying to say he *belongs * to the city?

[Angua]

@GuanoLad

And “Gk.”, means Genua/Klatchian ?

Greek?

[Priam]

I always thought he was making the point that politics was as much a part of the city as the police, a fact that Carrot’s predecessor never appreciated. Vimes deep down always believed that politicians and nobles were people who should be hanged for their own good and for the good of the city. Vetinari has always been on the practical side of things, constantly needling Vimes about his more idealistic worldview, and knows for a fact that dirty politicians are probably more a part of human nature than cops.

[Little_Nemo]

I’ve never read any Pratchett and have no idea who the Patrician is. I stole my joke from Dave Barry.

[smiling_bandit]

The Patrician is not really the bloodsucking leech type. No, he’s the odd sort of man who, like Ankh-Morpok, is as cynical as they come, but he does love his city, and despite themselves, the people who live there. He’s actually yet another variant on Pratchett’s essentiall hero: a flawed and cynical or humorously credulous character that nevertheless is more or less a decent person.

[silenus]

@Little Nemo

I’ve never read any Pratchett and have no idea who the Patrician is.

I’m so very, very sorry. Living with a disability like that must be extremely difficult. I wonder if it qualifies you for handicapped parking?

[Angua]

@silenus

I’m so very, very sorry. Living with a disability like that must be extremely difficult. I wonder if it qualifies you for handicapped parking?

And I was just going to burn the heretic.

[jayjay]

@Angua

And I was just going to burn the heretic.

I would think that coming within inches of tearing out his throat and then giving him a good, hard talking-to would be more in character for Angua.

Carrot, of course, would just organize a midnight Klatchian street hockey game and let him learn the Error of His Ways Through Sportsmanship.

[Angua]

@jayjay

I would think that coming within inches of tearing out his throat and then giving him a good, hard talking-to would be more in character for Angua.

Well, quite. But almost tearing throats out requires so much self-restraint. pouts