It is definitely not a restatement of the Razor. It also is not, by what I can determine, a rephrasing of Spinoza’s Law, which can be stated as “the modes (humans and the world of things) necessarily follow from substance plus attributes.” (quotation taken from here. There are a couple other "Spinoza’s Law"s out there (of self-preservation, of self-interest, etc). But the only reference to a Spinoza’s Law that quoted the concept of changing the theory to match the facts was a single web site which made the exact same quote, without attribution. I wonder if this isn’t an example of propogation of a mis-remembered “Law” found in one of the Murphy’s Law books…
The anti-vaxxers do have one uncomfortable point.
In a society such as the US where vaccination rates are nearly 100%, a particular child who is unvaccinated has an almost zero chance of getting mumps, measles, or polio, due to the herd immunity. It’s so low that the risk of adverse reactions to the vaccination itself can be much greater than the risk of catching the disease in the wild. This was particularly true with polio up until a few years ago, because the typical vaccine used a live but weakened virus (or something like that), so the kids in the US who actually got polio were almost all infected by the vaccine, because very near zero kids caught it in the wild.
So society can tolerate the occasional nut who chooses not to vaccinate his kids, but when the uptake rate falls below 80 or 90 percent, kids are gonna die. Most distressing are the kids who were not able to get a vaccine because of health problems they had, who now have a risk of catching these diseases because of the anti-vaxxers.
So let me get this right, would I rather have my daughter as she is, autistic, or extremely physically disabled or dead. Well give me how she is every time. If by some super slim chance vaccines did cause autism, as long as it wasn’t a cover up by the medical community my family would not seek restitution. If it was done in bad faith on the otherhand, that would change matters.
I’m not anti vaccine, or some sort of nut. Autism is caused by genetics, but if you take autistic people like me or my ex husband - verbal, indistinguishable when we want to be, capable of functioning in the world with only minor modifications - and expose them to any sort of major toxin in infancy or prenatally, you’re going to get someone like our son - a mute, ill, unreachable child.
Autism comes with 3 basic sets of problems: neurological, gastrointestinal and autoimmune. Those are the genetics. Subjecting those fragile genetics to anything harsh, lead, arsenic, antimony, yes mercury whether in fish or vaccines, can take a child predisposed maybe to some issues or differences and turn them into someone almost nonfunctional. Autism also comes with a genetic inability to excrete toxins via the normal pathways, so that yes, we are much more susceptible even to small amounts of neurotoxins, allergens, etc. when most other people wouldn’t have a problem, or even be aware they’d been exposed to most of the things that routinely make us ill.
The 1:150 autism rate, a CDC number, only refers to children like my son who have “autism syndrome,” or severe autism. If there were 1:150 in every generation, where are the 1:150 30, 40 and 50 year olds rocking, flapping their hands and banging their heads? Once you’ve seen a severely autistic child, you would hardly miss one across a crowded airport. How on earth did the psychologists and teachers in 1970 miss all those autistic kids?
The “better diagnosis” refers to the ONE IN SIX kids currently diagnosed with a neurological problem on or near the autism spectrum such as dyslexia, tourettes, obsessive compulsive disorder, ADD or ADHD. Again, that is a CDC rate. ONE IN SIX.
Where are all the misdiagnosed 40 year olds with ADD and tourettes? Sure, there are some, but 1 in 6?
There are all sorts of neurotoxins that can affect certain genetically susceptible people to varying degrees. My kids have tested very high in certain ones to which they were exposed prenatally or in infancy, some through vaccines and some from other sources like fish (which the EPA has very strict guidelines around, in terms of mercury, children and pregnant women), and to which other kids, with normal abilities to excrete harmful toxins, wouldn’t have developed any problems from.
Vaccines still contain mercury. The flu shot contains more mercury than the EPA allows for a 550-lb. man for a single day’s exposure. Most childhood vaccines still contain “trace” amounts. You wouldn’t find “trace” amounts of lead in vaccines, because the neurological effects are better understood. Mercury is 100x more potentially neurotoxic than lead. The fact that most kids wouldn’t react with a lifetime of resulting autoimmune, GI and neurological problems is great, but mine did. Of course vaccines need to be preserved, but offering my kids a single-dose vial without mercury and limiting how many viruses were introduced in one day are options I would have gladly paid extra for, compared to what I am dealing with now.
Yes we should eradicate childhood diseases. Yes most kids are fine when injected with mercury, even in quantities the EPA bans in fish and household paint. My kids weren’t. They became very ill after all their vaccines, and now their urine tests come back with huge amounts of mercury (and a few other choice toxins), and they’re very ill children. That doesn’t make me an anti-vaccine nut, just a very tired and disappointed mother.
We can put people on the moon, and look at the whole internet thing. Vaccines that are safe for all children, and in general cleaning up the environment so genetically autistic children can live productive lives free from more physical and neurological problems than they would have had to begin with, is not an impossible middle ground.
The state of autism research and treatment is in very bad shape, mainly because of fights with absolute and derogatory language like this one between “nuts” and people who cite misinformation (reach for a lucky instead of a sweet, anyone? thalidomyde? childbirth fever?) or just really don’t know what they’re talking about. Within the autism community, most of us are not interested in blaming or suing or urban legends. We just want our kids to not be so sick and maybe have a job one day, and try to protect them from getting worse, as much as we can. Choosing mercury free vaccines and having vaccines spaced out so you aren’t assaulting a fragile immune system with too many live viruses on one day isn’t the mark of a nut. It’s someone who doesn’t want their kids to get polio OR autism.
Noahsmom, the website you linked to has so many errors in it that a complete refutation would take pages - so here are just a few responses:
The author claims that little mercury is excreted in vaccinated children and instead goes to the brain. In fact, according to a review in the 12/04 issue of Vaccine by Clements, the following is stated: “one study has measured blood levels of total mercury in vaccinated infants and reports only a brief low-level exposure with rapid excretion of mercury.”
Mercury levels are not higher in the hair of autistic children - in fact, one study found they were lower compared to unaffected children.
Chelation therapy (to remove supposed toxic metals) has not been shown to improve signs and symptoms of autism, and this treatment can cause serious or even fatal reactions.
Adult autistics certainly exist (Google adult autistic for links) - but have apparently been undercounted.
The idea of some unknown toxin causing autism is an appealing theory, but the evidence just isn’t there. The “case” against thimerosal in vaccines* has broken down so badly that some former adherents are casting their nets wider in an attempt to find something or someone to blame.
I’m sorry to hear about your son’s condition. What the public health community is trying to assure is that many more children are not injured or killed by preventable childhood diseases as a result of unjustifiable attacks on vaccination.
*I can’t tell where you’re getting the idea there is still mercury in common childhood vaccines. The only ones I know about involve flu and hepatitis B shots. And there remains no evidence that those vaccinations are responsible for any cases of autism.
I wasn’t referring to autism as one of the risks of vaccines. Vaccines do have real adverse events occasionally. Many are simple such as infections, but in the case of the older polio vaccine, the rare case of actual polio did happen. It’s these adverse events that I was referring to, and a person who leeches off the herd immunity of everyone else to protect his child, might actually then have a child who is better off for it. I think you have to sell the idea of vaccines as not only protecting your own child, but your responsibility to do your part in protecting everyone else’s child, especially those children who for other medical reasons can’t get vaccinated.
In addition, there’s a responsibility to protect adults who may be harmed by contracting “childhood” diseases (i.e. immunosuppressed people, or in cases where a usually uncomplicated contagious disease can be far more serious in an adult (such as mumps in men).
Vaccine immunity is not 100% and can lessen over time, so those who “opt out” of getting their kids vaccinated put quite a few people at risk.
What I’ve been told is that autism is a symptom, not a disease; there may be something like 60 different brain problems that result in the same symptoms, and in our ignorance, we lump them together as “autism.” If that’s the case, it’s unlikely we’ll find just one cause.
Interesting anomaly - apparently there aren’t any autistic Amish people. (it’s a UPI story, not from one of the sources with an ax to grind).
What’s interesting from part II of the story - One was adopted from overseas, and one became autistic right after her vaccination! (I misread the story initially and thought all 3 kids were adopted).
The Amish didn’t vaccinate at all until recently, nowadays more of them are doing it.
It’s also been debunked as shoddy reporting combined with false assumptions.
What’s “interesting” is that anti-vaxers have leaped on this “connection” without bothering to ask how data was collected and evaluated. Using a somewhat more rigorous approach, a researcher conducting a survey among Amish adults found that 90% of them reported being vaccinated as children and that 84% said their children had been vaccinated.
Doesn’t say much for the “evidence” that not vaccinating protects the Amish from autism.
Even if they hadn’t been vaccinating their kids, there would have been no good reason to link that with supposedly low autism rates among the Amish (this has not been measured well anyway). The Amish have a much different lifestyle than most of us (some missing environmental exposure, perhaps?) and are a tightly inbred community (genetics is thought to play a large part in development of autism), so there was no justification for blaming vaccination unless one was predisposed to do that in the first place.
Correlation does not equal causation.
Finally, I know that you were linking to a UPI piece, fessie, but be aware that the whale.to website is one of the worst offenders on the Internet when it comes to regurgitating healthcare hogwash. Anything you see there should be vetted for accuracy and context using reliable sites.
Thanks for the reply! I’ll be sharing your refutation with others…
I appreciate your heads-up on whale.to. The Washington Times carried that story previously, but the link was long dead so I’d just googled the author’s name & linked to the first one that didn’t have ads plastered all over it.
That reporter, Dan Olmsted, has written over 100 articles on this issue. He could be a crackpot, but does that necessarily mean he’s wrong on all points? He’s got a newer piece in Science Daily. Here’s his latest offering:
"Another remarkable fact that caught my attention: Autism was first identified in both the United States and Europe at almost exactly the same time. Child psychiatrist Leo Kanner published his landmark paper at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore in 1943; pediatrician Hans Asperger published his – about a slightly less severely affected group of children – in Vienna in 1944. Cut off by a world war, neither knew of the other’s work.
Coincidence, say the experts, who attribute the timing to improving diagnostic techniques in both countries…
The clue could be the simultaneous arrival of ethyl mercury – but not, necessarily, in the vaccines that some parents blame for the huge rise in reported cases over the past two decades. What I’ve learned is that this especially dangerous form of organic mercury also was used starting around 1930 in fungicides. Morris Kharasch, the same American chemist who patented its use in vaccines – where it is called thimerosal – also pioneered its use as a seed disinfectant.
Remember, this type of mercury didn’t exist in nature; it’s man-made, and Kharasch is the man who made it marketable.
Two companies, one German and one American, built their ethyl mercury fungicide, called Ceresan, on those patents. In a joint venture, they sold it in both Europe and the United States. (Mercury-containing agricultural products were phased out decades ago after their effects on humans and the environment were recognized – though ethyl mercury still remains in most flu shots given to pregnant women and young children. Go figure.)
So what might have happened – warning, hypothesis ahead – is that some early exposures to ethyl mercury came from inhaling or otherwise coming into contact with it via that agricultural route. And some of the children exposed to this novel and neurotoxic form of mercury developed a novel neurological disorder called autism."
“Mercury-containing agricultural products were phased out decades ago after their effects on humans and the environment were recognized – though ethyl mercury still remains in most flu shots given to pregnant women and young children. Go figure.)”
There’s just a wee bit of difference between using some forms of mercury on a large scale to treat crops and using tiny amounts of another form as a vaccine preservative, especially when one has not demonstrated harm from its presence in vaccines.
“So what might have happened – warning, hypothesis ahead – is that some early exposures to ethyl mercury came from inhaling or otherwise coming into contact with it via that agricultural route. And some of the children exposed to this novel and neurotoxic form of mercury developed a novel neurological disorder called autism.”
And any one of a number of other things that happened in the '30s could also be hypothesized as leading to increased awareness of autism - environmental changes secondary to prolonged droughts, other chemical exposures, increasing popularity of radio, the rise of Fascism - or maybe that a long-existing medical condition was being better examined and quantified.
Instead of citing the poor reasoning of a reporter like Olmsted, I suggest you check the large body of scientific literature that has found no link between vaccines/vaccine preservatives and autism.
I understand. I just thought that perhaps since you were already familiar with one refutation of his work, you might be aware of others. I’m quoting a source that anti-vaxers (who are my friends) have relied on. His latest piece made “Science Daily News”, which may be about as reliable as “Ranger Rick” for all I know.
I read that there are parents who have home movies of their children behaving completely normally (at their 2nd birthday parties or whatever) and then poof, they change. Some parents swear it happened as soon as they were vaccinated – as in, within hours. Maybe they’re ALL kooks? I dunno.
At one point people believed that alcoholism was simply a character defect. That depression was just a figment of our imagination. And that following “a diet” would enable everyone to lose weight and keep it off. Things have turned out to be a bit more complicated, no?
Isn’t is possible that there’s a certain susceptibility to environmental toxins shared by autistic kids (because Lord knows, if anything has changed in the past 60 years it’s the level of toxins)? Couldn’t being vaccinated act as a trigger for some of them?
My kids are fully vaccinated. Period. But when the ped gave my daughter her MMR shot and Zoe turned bright red with the fit she was pitching, it scared the crap out of my doctor. She called 911, and 90 seconds later her office was flooded with big burly men. I didn’t think it was really dangerous (although the big burly men were kinda fun), I thought she was just pissed off (which turned out to be true). But that it could so frighten my pediatrician really said a lot. To me, anyway.
OK, wait, I went back and read that article in order to cite it to my friends.
Your cited group did their research on Amish in Illinois, not Lancaster County, Pennsylvania (which is the population Olmsted interviewed). I dodn’t see any proof that ALL Amish view vaccination in the same way, NOR was there any discussion of autism rates among the Illinois Amish.
Olmsted may not be a good reporter, but this isn’t exactly an ideal refutation.
Mercury toxicity has been well-studied, and the neurologic symptoms are not those of autism.
And no one is calling the parents “kooks”. It may well be that some were not fully aware of developing problems in their children and have targeted a recent, unrelated event as being to blame. No one has documented an acute onset of autism due to mercury-related brain toxicity occurring over hours, or involving any other time course for that matter.
And the common thread is that medical science has explored these conditions and is finding rational explanations for them, instead of seizing on emotion and knee-jerk suspicions. “Common knowledge” is commonly wrong.
Yes, and it’s reasonable to study this in addition to all the other lines of research involving autism.
No, based on the extensive evidence that has accumulated on this subject. Is it reasonable to stoke fears about vaccination based on conjecture and debunked theories and risk harm to children (and adults) due to increased disease among nonvaccinated children (as happened in Britain when measles cases increased due to the MMR vaccine scare)?
Whether or not your child had a rare idiosyncratic reaction to the shot or was just throwing a tantrum because she didn’t like the needle (which seems far more likely based on your description), what the incident should tell you is that you have a cautious pediatrician who’s looking out for her patients’ welfare. What you should not conclude is that it somehow validates every half-baked theory put out by the anti-vaxers.
I don’t think this has been mentioned in this thread yet. In response to questions about increased rates of diagnosis, I do want to point out that autism spectrum disorders and childhood schizophrenic spectrum disorders have been lumped and separated several times over the last century. My guess is that some people I might have characterized as having schizophrenia in the past are now classified as having autism. (Another example of this is the rise in bipolar disorder. You’d be hard-pressed to find a “hebephrenic schizophrenic” in the U.S. today–I’ve been in practice in and around hospitals since 1988 and have never seen a person with this diagnosis–but there didn’t used to be so many people with the bipolar diagnosis, which has an overlaping symptom set.)
In addition, there are a lot of people now walking around with diagnoses or pseudodiagnoses such as subclinical, high-functioning, or shadow Asperger’s. I know a reasonable number who, when I knew them in high school or college, were considered “smart but immature,” “weird,” “cold,” or “schitzy.” They now have high-end Asperger’s diagnoses. I think a complete discussion has to include some accurate numbers for severity of diagnosis, degree of impairment, classification under previous DSMs and ICDs, as well as at least consideration of changing cultural norms about how serious it is to not fit in in some way. My perception of the U.S. right now, as compared to 20 years ago, is that there is a lot less tolerance for many kinds of social deviation.
It certainly doesn’t help with the sweeping claim that “The Amish don’t get autism because they don’t vaccinate”.
What is nuts is reading a bunch of fatal studies repeated here like you are in the PR dept for a vaccine company. What possible reason could any of you use to defend mercury in any medicine, vaccine, or product?
Mercury in any form is toxic. It is being banned everywhere yet reading this stuff is probably similar to what happened when lead was being discussed in gasoline and paint. The industry went nuts trying to defend it and spent a lot of time and money to do it…but alas, science and common sense won. People are not going to buy your infomercial of “thimerosal isn’t bad and could never cause neurological issues”.
Here are some studies for those who want to know the science instead of the sarcasm and industry spin-
Porphyrinuria in Childhood Autistic Disorder: Implications for Environmental Toxicity
Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology, 2006.
Robert Nataf, Corinne Skorupka, Lorene Amet
Evidence of Toxicity, Oxidative Stress, and Neuronal Insult in Autism
Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, Nov-Dec 2006.
Janet Kern, Anne Jones
Comparison of Blood and Brain Mercury Levels in Infant Monkeys Exposed to Methylmercury or Vaccines Containing Thimerosal.
Environmental Health Perspectives, Aug 2005.
Thomas Burbacher, PhD [University of Washington].
Environmental mercury release, special education rates, and autism disorder: an ecological study of Texas.
Health & Place, 2006
Raymond F. Palmer, University of Texas Health Science Center
Thimerosal Neurotoxicity is Associated with Glutathione Depletion: Protection with Glutathione Precursors.
Neurotoxicology, Jan 2005.
S. Jill James, PhD [University of Arkansas].
Organic Mercury Compounds and Autoimmunity.
Autoimmunity Review, 2005.
Said Havarinasab, MD [Linkoping University].
Mercury and autism: Accelerating Evidence?
Neuroendocrinology Letters, Oct 2005.
Joachim Mutter, M.D. [Freiburg University, Germany].
Activation of Methionine Synthase by Insulin-like Growth Factor-1 and Dopamine: a Target for Neurodevelopmental Toxins and Thimerosal.
Molecular Psychiatry, July 2004.
Richard C. Deth, PhD [Northeastern University].
Neurotoxic Effects of Postnatal Thimerosal are Mouse Strain Dependent.
Molecular Psychiatry, Sep 2004.
Mady Hornig, MD [Columbia University].
Autism: A Novel Form of Mercury Poisoning.
Medical Hypothesis, 2001.
Sallie Bernard, Albert Enyati, Lynn Redwood, RN, Teresa Binstock, PhD.
Killing dangerous infectious agents that might have gotten into the vaccine, of course.
“Killing dangerous infectious agents that might have gotten into the vaccine, of course.”
I don’t think so…
There is ample evidence provided by federal
agencies and independent scientists that spans the last 70 years which documents that
thimerosal is not an effective or safe vaccine preservative. In a study published in the
Journal of the American Medical Association in 1948 titled “The bacteriostatic and
bactericidal actions of some mercurial compounds on hemolytic streptococci,” the
authors vigorously argued that thimerosal was ineffective as a “disinfectant, germicide
and antiseptic.” In the review of the literature in this paper, the authors cited eight studies
from 1928, 1935, 1937, 1938, and 1944 all of which drew similar conclusions.
5
In 1975, the FDA convened a panel of experts which included the lead author of the 1948
paper cited above to evaluate mercury-containing over-the-counter (OTC) products. The
panel issued its reports in 1980 and in 1982. The FDA issued a report of the panel’s
findings in the Federal Register where they concluded that “some mercury-containing
preparations are not effective and others are not safe and effective for OTC topical
antimicrobial use.
6
A bacteriostatic action that is capable of being reversed by contact
with body fluids and other organic matter does not constitute an effective topical
antimicrobial action…” Most of the literature reviewed addressed mercury’s lack of
antibacterial properties. One study reviewed published in 1970 titled, “Three thousand
years of mercury. A plea for abandonment of a dangerous, unproven therapy,” addressed
mercury’s lack of effectiveness regarding anti-fungal properties.
7
With respect to thimerosal in particular, the panel found evidence from 1950 which
concluded that “thimerosal was no better than water in protecting mice from potential
fatal streptococcal infections.”
8
Additionally, citing a 1935 study, the panel reported that
thimerosal was “35.3 times more toxic for embryonic chick heart tissue than for
Staphylococcus aureus.”
9
The panel concluded that “thimerosal was not safe for OTC
topical use because of its potential for cell damage if applied to broken skin and its
allergy potential. It is not effective as a topical antimicrobial because its bacteriostatic action can be reversed.” However, it wasn’t until 1998 that the FDA issued its final
report banning the use of thimerosal in topical OTC products because they were not “safe
and effective.”
10
There are several recent reports of thimerosal’s failure as a preservative. Clusters of
disease from Group A streptococcus infections were traced back to multi-dose vials of
diphtheria toxoid, pertussis, and tetanus toxoid (DPT) vaccine which were contaminated
after being opened.
11
Additionally, in 2004, a Chiron plant that manufactured Fluvirin
was forced to close because its vaccine was contaminated with Serratia marcescens.
12
This vaccine used thimerosal as a preservative in its product. This plant closure created
shortages in the vaccine supply and caused concern among providers and patients. In this
case and others, thimerosal failed to prevent bacterial growth.
-
Morton HE, North LL, and Engley FB. The bacteriostatic and bactericidal actions of
some mercurial compounds on hemolytic streptococci. JAMA. 1948;136(1):37-41. -
Federal Register, Department of Health and Human Services, Food and Drug
Administration. Mercury-Containing Drug Products for Topical Antimicrobial Over-the-
Counter Human Use; Establishment of a Monograph. (January 5, 1982);47(2):436-442.
47 FR 436 [Docket No. 75N-0183]. -
Kahn G. Three thousand years of mercury. A plea for abandonment of a dangerous,
unproven therapy. CUTIS; Cutaneous Medicine for the Practitioner. 1970;6:537-542. -
Engley FB. Evaluation of mercurial compounds as antiseptics. Annals of the New York
Academy of Sciences. 1950;53:197-206. -
Salle AJ and Lazarus AS. A comparison of the resistance of bacteria and embryonic
tissue to germicidal substances. I. Merthiolate. Proceedings of the Society for
Experimental Biology and Medicine. 1935;32:665-667. -
Federal Register, Department of Health and Human Services, Food and Drug
Administration… Status of Certain Additional Over-the-Counter Drug Category II and III
Active Ingredients. (April 22, 1998);63(77):19799-19802. 21 CFR Part 310 [Docket No.
75N-183F, 75N-183D, and 80N-0280. -
Bernier RH, Frank JA Jr., Nolan TF Jr. Abscesses complicating DPT vaccination.
American Journal of Diseases of Children. 1981;135:826-828. -
Smith S. “Safety fears cut vaccine for flu. Priority urged for the aged, frail.” Boston
Globe. (October 6, 2004). Available at:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/health_science/articles/2004/10/06/safety_fears_cut_
vaccine_for_flu?mode=PF
www.safeminds.org/pressroom/pres_releases/FDA_Docket2006P-0535.pdf