Merits of Firing Someone for Hating their Job

[Ogre]

It’s happened to me. I had just moved all the way across the country for a girl who, shortly thereafter, dumped me. I had just earned my Master’s degree, and left a good, professional-level job because I was in luuuuuuurve.

This left me in a shitty place, struggling to keep afloat while coping with my freshly broken heart and complete lack of prospects. I took a job for a large bookstore chain (not B&N). I was making shit money in a shit job, and eventually became assistant manager, because, hell, I suppose I just wanted to feel like I was advancing somehow. Salary! Benefits!

What I didn’t realize at the time was that the meager salary meant that they could work you for far more than 40 hours a week without paying you another dime.

I hated that job. God, I hated that job. I put on my shitty slacks and my shitty shirt and my shitty tie every day, then tied on my shitty fucking apron, and schlepped to work for 12-15 hours, for $18,000 a year. It was slavery.

But I stayed, because I was sunk in misery and I was in a rut. I was too miserable to go out and get another job. I was utterly unmotivated.

Fortunately, the district manager noticed that I was such a fucking pill; she waited until I had counted the registers one night, then fired me.

I swear to God, I hadn’t been that happy in over 3 years. Oh, I was resentful at first. “They can’t do that to ME! Who do they think they are?!” That literally lasted as long as it took to take off my apron and give them back the store keys.

It was an indescribable feeling, really. By putting a boot in my ass, they did me the biggest favor of my adult professional life. It was like a fresh breeze washed over me. I started applying for jobs in my field again, and although I had to take a few more crappy jobs to make ends meet, I steadily worked my way back around to professional-level jobs again, and was out of there within a couple more years, making (comparatively) loads of money.

Then I went back to get my PhD, where I am currently once again languishing in poverty, but that’s another story.

[CrazyCatLady]

@monstro

Your performance at the bottom of the totem pole often determines whether or not you will have a chance to rise to better conditions. Not always, sure, but often.

You bet your ass. Most jobs, especially service-industry type jobs, will shove as much work and responsibility on you as they think you can handle. If you seem to be struggling with the most basic stuff, or are already bitching about how much work it is, they’re not going to waste their time trying to give you more because you most likely can’t or won’t handle it. It’s a conversation I’ve had with a thoroughly depressing number of newish hires at the vet clinic: “Yeah, you hate scooping shit. We all hate scooping shit. But if you can’t or won’t scoop the shit the way we want it scooped, then you either can’t or won’t do anything else the way I need it done and I’m not wasting my breath trying to teach you. Now march your ass back in that kennel and wash those damn litterboxes. And get the shit off the outside of them this time.”

This sort tends not to last very long with us, fortunately. They get mad because someone who started at the same time or after them is advancing and they’re not and quit. Or the boss gets sick of me leaving poopy litterboxes or pictures of dirty cages that should have been cleaned on his desk and he fires them.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@BwanaBob

Just mentally file away all the names of the assholes you had to deal with. Karma’s a bitch.
One day you will be in a position to pass the “good times” back on those soul suckers.
Be patient. It can take years. I recently had the pleasure of making sure an old boss, who made my life miserable eight years ago, was rejected from consideration for a position at my current company.

I believe all “original” abuses of authority are to be paid back ten-fold.

Or, alternatively, you can move on and just forget about them, leaving life to sort them out (or not). I think holding grudges is a waste of good brain space.

Unfortunately, causticsubstance, this is indeed a learning experience for you. There should be a fair exchange of your time and efforts for your employer’s money, but we’re still stuck in a world where employers think they have all the power (and in the US, they’re far too right, and that’s not getting better any time soon). I often smile and say “No problem!” to a supervisor, while saying to myself in my head, “I’ll kill you later!” Then that usually makes me laugh at myself for taking this all so damned seriously.

[handsomeharry]

@causticsubstance

Maybe I’m just grasping at straws here, but I wouldn’t say anything like “That guy is such an idiot”. It would be more like “I wish they would let us out now, when we are no longer needed, so we wouldn’t be an hour late to our other jobs”. Or, “If you came in for a 7AM breakfast shift, and it’s now 6PM, and the people who started working at noon got to go home before you, and the night crew has already taken over your section, they probably shouldn’t have yelled at you for asking to go home because the babysitter is waiting for you.” I guess it’s a personal thing, I would rather commiserate than pretend everything is okay. If everyone around me acts like everything is dandy, then I start to feel alienated and crazy. And I hated the idea that the company could get away with everything they were doing.

Also, some of my co-workers were shocked to find out that the management thought I was negative.

Eh, now I’m just getting defensive. You guys are probably right, but I just needed to decompress.

If I’m not misreading your post, you ARE in the wrong. You were lecturing (albeit, you may not be aware of it) your coworkers on management’s incompetence. You were explaining where management was wrong, without going to management about it. This is a no-no. You can’t complain about management behind their backs, and expect good to come from it. Your coworkers being surprised is not relevent, because they may be immature, stoned, angry, who knows…

Best wishes,
hh

[causticsubstance]

To make it clear, I didn’t act miserable at work. And I’ve had other jobs in restaurants and offices that I hated but smiled through. I guess I did think that treatment was so unfair that I should have been talked about (though perhaps I was just a primadonna?). The thing was, talking to management directly about issues got a black mark next your name. For example, the 12 hour breakfast shift people asked about going home: I think the manager didn’t want to look like he had forgotten they were on the clock, and so he very sternly told the servers their asking showed a poor attitude about work, and he made them stay longer to “help out”, even though the dining room was empty.

Don’t get me wrong, you guys make a more valid point that I do. It just hate that employers in general can get away with this and if I don’t take it smiling then there is something wrong with me.

Anyway, point well taken. I’m powerless to do anything anyway and I should just move on.

[Boyo_Jim]

@causticsubstance

Forgive me, I am still young. This is my first experience working in a grossly mismanaged workplace that and knowingly stomped all over the lives of the staff (and believe it or not, it’s fairly simple to care for employees in a restaurant because there are so few middlemen). To go out on a limb, I am fairly certain they were making working conditions so hard that certain servers would be frustrated and then the management would have an excuse to fire them. And I am well aware that crap happens at most workplaces, but in a restaurant there’s no systemic bureaucracy to overcome-- you are talking directly with the people who could choose whether or not to screw you over.

I’m not trying to disagree with everyone who said my employer was right. I’ve just been mulling it over a lot and (obviously) have a lot of time to do so. I mean, they know that they are doing things that are far beyond typical restaurant BS, but rather than trying to fix things, they are giving special treatment to some staff who are the most physically attractive or “have great sass”, and keeping around only the most docile employees who quietly hope things will get better. I understand that it’s legally/logically valid and I guess this is my “welcome to the real world” moment, but am I wrong for thinking it’s a little bit more evil than usual?

FWIW, I have been smiling and happy for all my tables. I even say good things when they ask me how it’s been working here. This was by far my most abusive job, and I’ve worked at 6 restaurants, one of them being an Applebee’s with the highest turnover rate in the tri-state region.

I believe you are over-interpreting some of the comments. Your employer was not necessarily right to fire you, but your employer certainly had a right to fire you. And if your attitude was as negative as your OP suggests, it was probably a correct decision as far as it goes. This is not in any way a defense of your manager’s behavior – playing favorites, making poor and arbitrary decisions, etc. Clearly the situation might have turned out differently had the manager understood, or cared about, the impact of such treatment.

But those of us who have been in the workplace for a long time know that there are bad managers and bad environments, and* there is absolutely nothing we can do about them *most of the time, other than to get out. I’m a griper myself, and I understand that griping does help you cope, but it doesn’t help anyone else and your manager can punish you for it. So you either need to shut up or be a lot more careful who hears you.

My last piece of advice is – never allow yourself to be “forced to resign”. Resign on your own terms, i.e., when you find a better job; or let it be their choice to fire you. As others have noted, quitting may have made you ineligible for unemployment benefits.

[AmericanMaid]

I was almost fired back in 2005 for writing in my personal blog that I hated my job. I discussed my situation with a lawyer and he told me that a company cannot require its employees to be happy. But I kept my hatred inside and only bitched about work offsite/online. So I wasn’t fired then wound up finding the best job I’ve ever had 3 months later. Things happen for a reason isn’t a load of BS.

[Markxxx]

Well a toxic employee is bad. But on the flip side a good manager can change that. I had complaining staff before and I have never had trouble flipping them over.

It’s a matter of a good manager. Some (I’d say most I’ve known) managers don’t really know how to be good a managing a staff. Oh they can do the job but can’t control their staff, so they fire people.

I know when I hired people I carefully used the 90 day evaluation period. If someone was not going to work, really you can tell in 30 days. Get rid of them ASAP and move on.

I also will say in this bad economy a lot of employers are using it as an excuse to milk employees for everything they’re worth and that makes it rough. But you got to suck it up and wear it till times get better.

Hopefully you’ll be able to get unemployment

[Kent_Clark]

@causticsubstance

Maybe I’m just grasping at straws here, but I wouldn’t say anything like “That guy is such an idiot”. It would be more like “I wish they would let us out now, when we are no longer needed, so we wouldn’t be an hour late to our other jobs”. Or, “If you came in for a 7AM breakfast shift, and it’s now 6PM, and the people who started working at noon got to go home before you, and the night crew has already taken over your section, they probably shouldn’t have yelled at you for asking to go home because the babysitter is waiting for you.” I guess it’s a personal thing, I would rather commiserate than pretend everything is okay. If everyone around me acts like everything is dandy, then I start to feel alienated and crazy. And I hated the idea that the company could get away with everything they were doing.

Also, some of my co-workers were shocked to find out that the management thought I was negative.

Eh, now I’m just getting defensive. You guys are probably right, but I just needed to decompress.

Maybe it would have been better if you’d gone directly to your boss and expressed those concerns. Sure, you still might have been fired, but at least it would have been for insubordination rather than being negative.

[smaje1]

@causticsubstance

Anyway, point well taken.

The way you’re taking the criticism from folks here on the board proves to me that you probably weren’t as negative in your last workplace as some might imagine. It sounds like your bosses were jerks, and I think you’re better off without them.

Now’s your chance to find yourself a better job, or find a whole new direction with your career.

I was let go from a job in L.A. - one of the first to go due to budget cuts. I was probably among the first to go because I had been extremely negative about my job (complaining about long work hours amidst a drought of work). I wasn’t surprised - I knew my attitude was poisonous to the morale of my team. But despite the fact that being unemployed sucks, I was soooo happy to be out of that toxic workplace.

Good luck, and next time, make them fire you (instead of quitting voluntarily) so you can get unemployment.

[monstro]

@CrazyCatLady

@monstro

Your performance at the bottom of the totem pole often determines whether or not you will have a chance to rise to better conditions. Not always, sure, but often.

You bet your ass. Most jobs, especially service-industry type jobs, will shove as much work and responsibility on you as they think you can handle. If you seem to be struggling with the most basic stuff, or are already bitching about how much work it is, they’re not going to waste their time trying to give you more because you most likely can’t or won’t handle it. It’s a conversation I’ve had with a thoroughly depressing number of newish hires at the vet clinic: “Yeah, you hate scooping shit. We all hate scooping shit. But if you can’t or won’t scoop the shit the way we want it scooped, then you either can’t or won’t do anything else the way I need it done and I’m not wasting my breath trying to teach you. Now march your ass back in that kennel and wash those damn litterboxes. And get the shit off the outside of them this time.”

This sort tends not to last very long with us, fortunately. They get mad because someone who started at the same time or after them is advancing and they’re not and quit. Or the boss gets sick of me leaving poopy litterboxes or pictures of dirty cages that should have been cleaned on his desk and he fires them.

flashbacks as a college-aged kennel attendent and having to deal with the bad kitties

[Euryphaessa]

I was the toxic employee this summer, mostly due to my own personal problems. My boss sat me down and had a kind talk with me about my attitude, and I sucked it up. I still had bad days, but I wasn’t morose all the time like before. Was hard on me to fake it everyday, but the more I faked it, the easier it got. I still fucking hate that place, though.

Sorry you lost your job, caustic.

[BigT]

I just love how much pressure we put on people to get them to fake being nice, instead of actually being a good person. And we wonder why there is so much animosity in the world.

People cannot take continually being forced to be something they are not. And when they finally realize this, most people swing in the opposite direction and become assholes.

[Boyo_Jim]

@BigT

I just love how much pressure we put on people to get them to fake being nice, instead of actually being a good person. And we wonder why there is so much animosity in the world.

People cannot take continually being forced to be something they are not. And when they finally realize this, most people swing in the opposite direction and become assholes.

Really, your think most people are assholes? I would agree that most people are idiots, but by and large they’re not assholes about it. They’re not even aware of it.

[Hilarity_N.Suze]

@BigT

I just love how much pressure we put on people to get them to fake being nice, instead of actually being a good person. And we wonder why there is so much animosity in the world.

People cannot take continually being forced to be something they are not. And when they finally realize this, most people swing in the opposite direction and become assholes.

Well, really. People who act as the OP described in the workplace are basically saying “Fuck it, I am unhappy, and the rest of you are going to be unhappy right along with me.” I’ve worked with people like that. Not fun.

If someone walked in and said, “You will lose your job if you don’t smile,” most people will smile. It may not be a real smile or heartfelt, but it’s better than a scowl to most of your coworkers.

[Cat_Whisperer]

If you hate your job you need to find a better one, but meanwhile, hating your job doesn’t give you the right to be crabby at work every day. Ideally, being a good person also includes not dumping your shit on your co-workers.