Is this all we have?
this is an example of an anecdote. Do you know this person? Am I supposed to take his word (seemingly self-serving) that his version of events are accurate? You seem willing to.
If they investigated him and found he did not act inappropriately and fired him anyway, I would expect that this would be actionable. Has he filed a lawsuit?
Or is it possible that his firing actually had nothing to do with inappropriate comment?
Ah.
Before addressing the rest, please confirm where I said this. I didn’t, you have me confused with another poster, I believe. I’d ask you re-read my comments in the thread stripped of the association, because I’m fairly certain I didn’t say that.
His bio is still on the King’s College website. So… has his life been destroyed by this case?
…#metoo has always been about something very simple. “I hear your story. It happened to me too.” Its always been about solidarity. About empowering. About showing the scale of the problem of sexual harassment, sexual assault and rape in our society.
And one of the reasons sexual harassment, sexual assault and rape are at near epidemic proportions in society is because as a society we like to pretend that all these bad things didn’t and don’t happen. So making the process more transparent, making the process more accessible and having a process that strives to not “punish” either party prior to the end of the investigation is one of the things that, to be quite frank, has to happen.
So if #metoo has morphed into taking “immediate action that’s publicly visible” (the reality though is that it hasn’t “morphed” into anything) then I don’t know how you can argue thats a bad thing. The pendulum has never been “at the middle.” Its always been very far away from justice and what is “fair.” If you don’t understand that: then you really don’t understand what #metoo is all about.
Or that when they do happen, they’re not really that big a deal, or that they’re just natural behavior for men, or that women aren’t using the right behavior to prevent them, or that women aren’t using the right behavior to stop them, or that women are at fault for not avoiding them, or that women are at fault for taking them too seriously, or any or all of the above.
Three comments.
Because I’m short on time: I cross remembered the link without reviewing. This gentlemen was censured. I was conflating him with the British scientist that was hit a couple years back. That was sloppy, I apologize for that.
I’ve never had a job or heard of a job where being an asocial robot was the norm.
…well he did say it was an “easy fix.” The more difficult fix, to but it bluntly, is more difficult, but ultimately more rewarding for everyone. But if you are having trouble discerning what is and what isn’t appropriate behavior in the workplace, then perhaps the “easy fix” is the best way forward.
You’ve never heard of the software industry?
No, not confused with another poster. you said:
First, you mistake the theme. It’s not “believe all women”, it’s just “believe women”.
This is untrue. it is only that they be treated seriously and not dismissed nor automatically disbelieved.
Which is why you can’t belive women, amiright?
When I was in first grade, someone made up a rumour that I had picked my nose and put the booger on page 52 of my science text book. While I straightened it out formally, there were social impacts that could and did last.
Agreed, here.
So, what can we do? Oh, I know. Don’t believe women!
Ah, even better than not believing the women, marginalizing them is a better solution. Then they are not even around to not be believed.
You’re creating a false dichotomy, where if one doesn’t just “believe all women”, it becomes “don’t believe women.” That’s a strawman, pure and simple.
Take the accusation seriously- but discretely until resolved. Honest mistakes and honest miscommunications do in fact occur, and so do malicious claims. We’re agreed there.
The prominent virtue signaling surrounding #MeToo has made it more than merely “believe women.” Anyone that didn’t things seriously when an allegation was leveled is an idiot. That doesn’t mean we should create a public shame list of accusations, with no vetting as to their truth or content, and given that such a list exists and there is a power of “moral-suasion” being assigned to women who have such an experience to confess, you’re tempting exploiters who want the notoriety- like the woman who claimed she wrote the Kavanaugh letter because she wanted the attention.
What?
…here’s a question for you: why do you think these “public shame lists” started?
What’s especially baffling about this viewpoint is: If you think women should be marginalized and shunned because of the comparatively tiny risk that a woman might falsely accuse a man of committing sexual misconduct, then why don’t you think men should be marginalized and shunned because of the comparatively much greater risk that a man will actually commit sexual misconduct?
Even here there is general agreement that sexual assault and harassment is actually a much worse problem than false accusations of sexual assault and harassment. So I guess the guys moaning about how it’s too dangerous to keep women in the workplace, because there’s a chance one of them might falsely accuse somebody, would concur that it’s even more dangerous to keep men in the workplace because there’s a much greater chance that one of them will assault or harass somebody?
If men shouldn’t have to put up with a small risk of women falsely accusing them, why should women have to put up with a much larger risk of men assaulting or harassing them? Let’s get the men segregated into their blue-collar-ghetto jobs, under competent female supervision of course, and leave the positions of power and authority to the women who are statistically far more likely to be able to keep their hands off non-consenting co-workers and employees.
And furthermore, when all the men are safely segregated in the lower-status maintenance/service/etc. jobs and all the women are safe in the boardrooms and operating rooms and so forth, it will be much more difficult for a woman to falsely accuse a man of sexually misbehaving with her. Win-win!
There is no logically consistent reason why men who advocate shunning and excluding women from an integrated workforce, due to the potential danger of their making false accusations, shouldn’t be even more on board with shunning and excluding men because of the far greater dangers their behavior poses.
Do you not realize how utterly horrible that is? You just admitted that, because of a single false accusation, which only resulted in the guy having to change jobs, it’s okay for 100 women to be raped. Their lives are permanently ruined, while your guy can just leave and move on.
And that is the core problem. It’s all about you. Since you aren’t worried about being raped, you don’t care about rape. There is an extremely rare chance you might be falsely accused, so you do care about that.
And, since you don’t care about women, it’s really hard for me to give a crap if you feel like you can’t talk to women anymore. It keeps you from being afraid, and they are better off not forming any attachment to someone who doesn’t care about them and whether they get raped.
What you have described is exactly why so many of us have a lack of sympathy about people troubled by the #MeToo movement.
To be fair, that last line in your quote is not from BrainFireBob.
I was part of the quoted sarcasm from k9bfriender
Sigh. Virtue signalling is not a thing. It is a term made up by the right to say that the left doesn’t actually hold the values they say they hold. It’s all just for show. And the concept here is particularly nonsensical, since saying that this is about virtue signaling would mean that the #MeToo movement don’t care about rape and are only doing it in order to look good.
No, the woman who wrote the Kavinaugh letter didn’t say she wanted attention. She said she was angry. She was angry that the Ford allegation was not being taken seriously. And because the only way that these things get taken seriously is if there are multiple accusations, so she gave one. Is that right? No. But trying to blame that on notoriety is ridiculous.
Keeping things discreet is why nothing ever happened. It’s why Weinstein got away with it so long. Because not responding to allegations was entirely normal and how everything was dealt with. It was kept under wraps.
So #MeToo shines the light on all this crap. We bring it public, because that is literally the only thing that gets these people to actually give a shit. The stuff they would have just swept under the rug, they can no longer do so.
You might as well say that everyone molested in the Catholic Church should remain quiet and let them investigate. Staying quiet doesn’t work. Staying discreet means justice is not served. Getting the public involved is the only reason why this shit is actually now being dealt with.
And the only “list” is a list of people who we personally have evaluated the evidence we’ve seen and decided that the allegations against them are credible. That’s the same for literally every other kind of accusation out there. Trying to act like rape is special and should be kept quiet not only fails as a tactic, but is ethically inconsistent.
No one says that you should keep quiet about murder accusations until the person is found guilty of murder.
Yes, that was indicated by the nested quotes in my post. Didn’t those quotes show up as nested? They do for me 
I think this encapsulates the attitude toward women by many of those who see #Metoo as Antifa for women–or maybe ISIS would be a better example. It starts with the stereotypes we see above and in this thread:
catty
devious
hypersensitive
overreactive
OR
They’re good girls who take sexual harassment as a compliment and appreciate it, as good girls should. But geez, even THOSE women might take off a mask to reveal…a #Metoo-er! :eek:
If you believe those stereotypes, it’s a short step to “Oh, my God! The women! You look cross-eyed at 'em, and you get a sexual harassment charge that will end your career! You don’t even have to look at 'em! One of 'em could just be bored one day, pick your name out of the company directory, and the next thing you know, you’re out on your keester!” Maybe the real problem is that those so strongly opposed to #Metoo, so adamant that men falsely accused of sexual harassment is not simply a problem to be acknowledged but one more important than sexual harassment itself, view women as the unknowable Other.
If this is how you see women, if you truly believe men getting falsely accused of sexual harassment is not simply an issue, however infrequent, to be acknowledged but more important than sexual harassment, itself, then your own distorted perceptions are the reason for your fear and outrage, not #Metoo.
Actually doing work while you are at work makes one an “asocial robot”? Strange.
If you have friends at work, that you see outside of work, then sure, talk about non-work stuff. Colleagues that you don’t hang out with after work, or subordinates? Treat them professionally, which means keep it work related. You never heard of “professional behavior” before?