Do frivolous sexual harassment cases encourage gender bias?

Consider it agreed upon that sexual harassment in the workplace is a serious problem and needs to be dealt with in the strongest possible way.

Now, I’ll take it as a given that the vast majority of harassment complaints are valid.

But it seems to me that there is an increasing number of harassment complaints that are unfounded and frivolous.

Cases in point-

A former co-worker of mine, talking about his female dog, referred to her as a bitch, which is the technically correct term for said dog. A female coworker overheard and filed a complaint with human resources.

Another co-worker, after listening to an employee talk about a cruise she was planning to go on during her upcoming vacation, turned to a female who happened to be standing next to him and said, “Hey, we should do that.”
Complaint was filed.

A male employee used the word “broad” in a sentence. A female co-worker, who was not involved in the conversation, at whom the remark was in no way directed, filed a harassment complaint.

A manager, in talking to a female employee, placed a friendly hand on her shoulder, touching her in a completely nonsexual way. Complaint filed.

It seems to me that fear of this sort of frivoulous complaint would lead companies to not want to hire women workers. Of course, they legally can’t discriminate, but in a right to work state, I wonder if a high percentage of women don’t pass their evaluation periods because, in some vaguely stated terms, they “weren’t meeting standards.”

I have worked in situations where fear of harassment complaints was so strong that male supervisors would start to give me a pat on the back, then suddenly jerk their hand away. Of course, they all knew that I’m not the type who would make a complaint, but there were eyes all around…

And most companies don’t seem to have procedures in place to deal with employees who make frivolous harassment complaints.

Agreed.
There have been many efforts to stop frivolous lawsuits of all forms, but as of yet Congress has barely made any decisions. But then, the Congress is made up of lawyers and lawyers make money off of frivolous suits.

In a company I once worked for, I suggested that any time anyone filed a frivolous sexual harassment complaint, they should be punished in some way, preferably by fining them or docking their pay equal to the time the company spent solving the complaint. The idea was rejected.

Unfortunately, every time someone comes up with some way to right a wrong, like obvious sexual harassment, someone else finds a way to abuse it. Then things get all messed up.

wouldn’t it make more sense to stop hiring men??

after lifetimes of being treated as second class citizens and sex objects, women have some legal recourse.

dixiechiq, for the purposes of this debate, would you please clarify your statement?

Not the one about not hiring men, I know that was a joke, but the one following it… I agree that it is about time that sexual harrassment be dealt with legally - but what we are talking about here is frivolous complaints.

I think frivolous complaints should be dealt with in the harshest manner possible. There is the capacity to ruin lives here. That’s my stance and I’m sticking too it.

I’d like to bring another aspect of this topic up to the top of the soup bowl. Sexual harrassment happens both ways. At a previous job I was sexually harrassed by a co-worker. She was always trying to catch me alone. When she did, her hand always found my butt. This was not innuendo - she was very blatant about what she wanted. After I told her “thanks but no thanks” her efforts redoubled. I told my boss and he laughed and said I was ‘lucky’ (she was, what would be considered ‘hot’). I didn’t feel so lucky - I felt put upon and left my job a few weeks later.

Frivolous sexual harassment cases certainly encourage gender bias.

If males are afraid of being falsely accused, then they will be hyper-careful around women. This situation means two things. First, men will be uncomfortable around women, and will tend to try to avoid working with them. Second, this situation encourages the male to think of the female co-worker as “woman” rather than “colleague.” This reinforces the female’s femaleness in the male workers’ minds. Until men can get past seeing women as “women” and start seeing them as “people,” gender bias will be a big problem.

The frivolous suits also tend to trivialize the serious ones. I, personally, am reluctant to talk about my own case where I was sexually harassed because I know that many people, men and women alike, will assume that I was overreacting. (I didn’t sue, btw) If I talk about it, I usually find that I have to “prove my case”–to demonstrate that what the harasser did was truly obscene. It’s like people don’t believe that real sexual harassment happens. It follows that they tend to give the harasser (usually male) the benefit of the doubt.

All crudeness and sexual slander aside, I, myself find it difficult to consider a woman as just a cologne. Unless she is very, very male-like, her femininity is always considered. If she is very, very male-like, then, for myself, I find I dislike her – presumably because I’ve encountered more woman bosses who act more macho than the men and because to me, they look like lesbian dykes.

I, personally, like to work with a woman who is a woman, dresses like a woman, acts like a woman and who is both competent in her field and intelligent. Not only that but I enjoy trading ‘sex’ jokes with them. I’ve found it more enjoyable to go work in a field where women come up with just as many ‘sexual jokes’ as guys do. I don’t mean the crude stuff either, but I’ve been bending over digging out files and had a female coworker come by and comment ‘nice ass’ and loved it. (Well, ah, I was in my 20s then and my ass was not so large.) Or I’ve gotten one a cup of coffee and as she took it she’s said ‘keep treating me this nice and it might get you somewhere.’

No crude grabbing and lecherous remarks, but a free interplay between guys and gals. I’ve had ladies rest their hands on my shoulder as they read data on my desk and I’ve not only enjoyed the touch, but enjoyed their perfume. I’ve also had ladies compliment me on my cologne, my hair cut or my shirt. I’ve complimented them on their dresses, hairstyles, make-up and jewelry. I’ve said they look sexy. They’ve said I looked handsome.

In such companies, rarely, if ever, did we have a harassment suit or complaint and if we did, it was always a new hire who just did not approve of our ways. It got to the point that we could almost pick them out because they dressed severely asexual, or in manlike clothing and just never seemed very friendly.

Today though, that male/female compatibility is pretty well shot because everyone is afraid of getting sued.

Now, I never have approved of the base sexism where guys always made obviously sexual comments towards the women, suggestive movements, inappropriate touching, exaggerated terms like ‘dear,’ ‘honey,’ ‘babe,’ and ‘sweet heart.’ Heck, in one place I worked, guys had cheesecake calendars on their desks and the women had beefcake ones.

Besides, I liked it when the women would put plants on their desks or pretty colored little personal things. You can’t do that in many places today.

Actually, the hardest female workers I had to deal with were those out of the military. Forget about sexism! These girls hated taking orders from anyone without stripes! Man! Could they argue also! I once worked for a lady boss who left the Army as a Colonel and she kept forgetting that she could no longer expect us to ‘drop and give her 20’ or have to absolutely follow her orders to the letter.

(What was worse is that all of these ladies had been trained in combat skills! They could have beaten my butt!)

These frivolous suites suck.

ARRRGH! I meant colleague in the first part of my post!

So, Trekker, you’re saying you like working with a woman who can be feminine, but still be “one of the boys.”

Which is fine. I’ve alway been the type that men don’t have to be uptight around, but most men are anyway, at least until they get to know me and realize I’m not going to cry harassment the first time someone drops a double-entendre.

I’ve worked with guys who call me “honey” and “sweetheart”, mostly older guys. It never bothered me because they basically treated me with respect.

But these frivolous harassment cases make life bad for women in general. It seems that no sooner did we get to the point where men were starting to treat us as equals in the workplace, these whiney-ass bitches had to start screwing it up for us.

I know, guys. It’s hard to respect someone if you don’t know when she might go crying to human resources because she took an innocent comment you made the wrong way.

We’re not all like that.

I don’t know that it leads to gender bias, because it’s hard to pursue a policy of gender discrimination without falling afoul of the law. But I do think frivolous sexual harassment complaints undermine the legitimacy of complaints filed by women who have truly been harassed.

It’s like the whole “political correctness” thing; if you hear enough ridiculous stories of people insisting on being called “vertically challenged” instead of “short” or “differently-abled” instead of “disabled,” it’s easy to lose track of the fact that some people just don’t want to be called “spick” or “kike,” and shouldn’t have to put up with that. Same thing here: ridiculous stories of (non)harassing behavior undermine the perceived validity of other complaints based on truly harassing behavior.

Less importantly, I think they contribute to sucking the fun right out of the workplace environment. I think men (and women) legitimately feel that the friendly remark or touch of the arm is dangerous if it can be misinterpreted, and prudence dictates it just not be made. I think that’s too bad; as a woman, I appreciate someone who says “nice blous” to me, and I’d hope I could say “nice tie” to a coworker without him racing up to human resources to file a complaint. I mean, there’s a difference between a pat on the back and a pat on the ass, and it’s unfortunate people feel they can share the former without being accused of the latter.

I think a big part of the problem is that in some instances, a completely uninvolved person is allowed to complain.Most people know , at least in a general way, how they can treat most other people without causing offense - for example, my male friends at work know that I don’t get offended easily,yet they know they can’t speak the same way to their subordinates .What they don’t always know is who might be watching or overhear and then take offense. If a man I work with makes a remark to me or touches me ,if I’m not offended, why should someone else be able to make a sexual harassment complaint ( depending on exactly what was going on,it might make sense to allow them to complain of something else, but not sexual harassment-they’re not being harassed, and if I don’t mind, neither am I)

Yeah, call me an idiot or a throwback, but when I work with women, I want to work with women not either androgynous beings or male-like clones.

I don’t like working in an all guy atmosphere with testosterone levels all over the place, each guy trying to out-guy the next guy and so on. With women in the work place, guys tend to actually mellow out, plus I get tired of looking at beard stubble, hairy arms, short hair and the same blasted company dress pants, shirt and tie all day.

A lady in the work place adds a splash of color, a change in demeanor, smooth skin, higher voice and jewelry plus a competent attitude not generated by the testosterone need to savagely compete. Guys will often take criticism from a woman better than from another man. The lady can be just as cutthroat as the guys, but her being female makes all of the difference.

Certainly frivolous lawsuits make the workplace a worse place for everyone, and certainly a relaxed and friendly atmosphere—which, as far as I’m concerned, can include some personal conversation and even mild displays of affection and/or flirting, given and taken in the same spirit—is more fun to work in.

But I think that when a bunch of strangers are tossed into the same building to spend several hours a day together every day, they have to earn that friendly atmosphere by demonstrating that they can behave with appropriate, more formal collegial manners until they get to know one another better. Sorry you’re feeling deprived of the friendliness and flirting, folks, but remember that for the most part, as dixiechiq notes (with all due acknowledgement of the reality of female-initiated harassment cases such as dewt describes), it wasn’t women who screwed the situation up: it was men who exploited their positions to use the friendly flirtatiousness as a cover for intolerable behavior and to ignore women’s protests. If many women are being a little trigger-happy about these issues now that businesses are finally taking them seriously, remember that the causes go a lot farther back than these women’s personal insecurities or oversensitivity. I have little respect for women who overreact so seriously to such trivial incidents, but I have even less respect for men (or other women) who would let their opinion of women in general or their principles concerning gender equality in the workplace be affected by these abuses.

So I’m definitely with Miss Manners on this one: expecting the default for office behavior to be more formal and impersonal rather than friendly and flirty is not a sin, nor is it a cruel deprivation. Everyone who works with people he or she doesn’t know well should be prepared to go about his or her job without touching other people (except for the custom-sanctioned handshakes, of course), without using vulgar language, without making personal comments on appearance, without mentioning sex, sexual attraction, or personal matters at all (except insofar as they’re relevant to the job, that is), without revealing whether or not your coworkers are meeting your personal standards for appropriate “femininity” or “masculinity”. That’s not prudishness, that’s just dignified workplace manners. And believe me, it stands you in good stead when you do eventually have to work with people who are strictly off-limits to personal or flirtatious conversation, or when you’re in a different culture where your standard friendliness may be perceived as grossly intrusive.

Note (now that you’re all thoroughly pissed at me) that I said increased formality is not a bad thing as the default. There’s no need to continue being so standoffish with people you like and trust, and in fact the initial impersonality makes it all the more fun when the formality eventually breaks down. But complaining that you can’t just behave informally all the time because some people might misinterpret it as offensive? Ha. Cry me a river. Your workplace is not automatically your personal encounter group or support group or circle of friends, and maintaining a businesslike impersonality at the office is not automatically hardship duty. (Plus, it will save you from the unwanted overfamiliarity of all the whiny/jerky/annoying coworkers whose irritating attempts at conversation so many posters keep bitching about in Pit threads. :))

Well said, Kimstu.

GB: Thanks, sweetie! ::big hug::

(See, I can be informal too! ;))

As a totally uninvolved third person, I’m filing a frivolous complaint against this. Particularly because no one has hugged me, yet. That’s gotta be harassment of some sort. :slight_smile:

I, as a male, was sexually harassed once by another guy at work. Never a woman. Just my luck: I’m straight. Life is NOT good to me. Didn’t make an issue of it, because it struck me as so rediculous; but gave him as cold a shoulder as I could get away with and still do my job. He eventually got the hint.

I look around at the women in my office - including me - and the difference between us and the men is that we’re more likely to wear pastel T-shirts with our jeans - is that the splash of color? Changed demeanor? Yeah, right… Jewelry? All I can see are wedding rings and wristwatches. We prefer to leave our pearls and frilly aprons for home.
Higher voices? Some yes, some no…

ya know, FarTreker, I still can’t decide if you’re for real or just yanking chains here…

I guess it depends on where you work. In my office, the men are fairy interchangeable as far as dress goes. Slacks w/ shirt&tie. Most shirts white.

Women wear pants-suits, blouses, skirts, dresses, nice earrings, etc. Most are quite colorful, and many have interesting design prints.

There are not too many women around here who choose to dress as boring as a man. Don’t most women like to dress in an attractive way? To stand apart, if not by accentuating femininity, by at least being, well, colorful?

At the risk of sounding Serlinesque (ahem, ahem), I think this is a good thing. Do I judge the women in my agency by their clothes? Of course not. The only thing that really matters is job performance and the important tangents such as getting along with co-workers and clients, etc. But the difference in dress style is nice, IMO.

I suppose I’m atypical - I consider clothing to be a necessary evil and I dress for comfort and utility, not style. I don’t know or care what the latest fashions are - never did. I don’t wear makeup. I have my hair cut for minimal care. Jewelry gets in the way, and is unsafe in my job. If you want to judge my “femininity” by my appearance, knock yourself out - I have little use for the opinions of those who judge by appearances anyway.
That said, I’ve been known to tell off-color jokes with the best of them, and even flirt on occasion. I’ve also found that what I will or will not tolerate (comments, touching, glances) varies according to who’s looking/touching/talking. It’d take a lot for me to sue, but not much for me to want to deck certain individuals. I’ve found overall, that if I consider the source, I can ignore most of the crap and life goes on.

But maybe it’s just me…

I don’t disagree with you Kimstu, at least not entirely. I would just note that the situation above is simply not the norm, and it is fairly unnatural to boot. When people work together for long periods of time, they naturally become more relaxed and personal with one another. Good natured camaraderie is what nearly everyone would prefer as the default state, not stiff formality.

Sure, when you are new on the job, you certainly will try to get to know people somewhat before trying to be best buddies or even casual friends with them. But it’s silly to think that everyone else, already well past that point with one another, should be required to adopt android manners whenever you are around, and even sillier to assert that it should be so just because you might happen to walk in. Certainly if we all acted like androids whenever we are at work, the harassment problems would vanish overnight. The thing is, that’s not a world anybody wants to live in.

Ptahlis, I don’t think that the kind of “formality” I specified—no touching, no swearing, no sexy jokes or personal comments—is necessarily “stiff,” much less “android manners”! The fact that not being interested in talking about sex in the office qualifies you in some people’s eyes as an “android” indicates to me just how far the polarization has gone. I’m not proposing a thoroughly rigid protocol where you can’t even smile, for heaven’s sake! I’ve spent years in various workplaces where my colleagues and I had fun, enthusiastic, vivacious conversations about work, about ideas and developments related to our fields or of general intellectual interest, about weekend activities and past experiences and general reflections on life. They included arguments, silliness, banter and jokes. They simply didn’t include remarks or jokes related to sex or about one another’s personal appearance or emotional lives. It’s really not such a hardship to do without those topics during the workday; it didn’t turn us into androids.