The Mexican Government is proposing giving 200,000 survival kits to bring down the death rate of its citizens as they try to illegally cross into the US. Mexican officials estimate the death toll in 2000 at 491.
“These survival packets would consist of such items as anti-diarrhea medicine, adhesive bandages, aspirin, acetaminophen, medicine for snake and scorpion bites, electrolyte powder to help prevent dehydration, water, salt, dry meat, cans of tuna and granola.” Distribution will start next month. (San Diego Union)
The Mexican Government is funding this program but is also seeking funding from American foundations. (LA Times)
The idea came from a committee of doctors and health workers formed by the government’s new Office for Mexicans Abroad. (San Diego Union)
Note: Information is from the LA Time and San Diego Union. Unfortunately these articles are in the archive of both papers and so cites are not available. I suggest that you look up the articles, you can do an archive search of “survival kits” in both http://www.latimes.com and http://www.signonsandiego.com web sites.
The debate is should Mexico distribute these kits? Will these kits really help lower the death toll or are they a waste of money and actually encourage illegal immigration? What are some other ideas that will help the plight of migrants?
I believe the real issue is water. The migrants cannot carry enough water to get them through the desert. Temperatures in the border desert of California reach over 100F after February and will reach 120F in the shade during the summer. These kits will give the Mexican migrant a false sense of security about the safety of crossing the desert during the spring and summer times.
Another problem is the coyotes. (A coyote is a person who transports illegal aliens across the border). These animals will pack a non-air conditioned small delivery truck with people who have paid $1000-$2000US each. The people are locked in with minimal amounts of water. The death toll has risen to 14 found in San Diego County last week when the smuggler abandoned a group of illegal immigrants and left them to die. This is a problem of greed and lack of respect for human life.
The positive about these survival kits is that they have brought the dangers that the Mexican migrant faces to the forefront.
My whole problem with this whole thing starts here. It’s acknowledged that they are breaking the law by crossing the border into our country. Yes, people die, but they die attempting to commit a crime. How many people cried when mobsters were taken out it hits, or when gangbangers shot each other?
If you want to come to the U.S. please, please do so through legal channels. I feel sorry for the poor people of Mexico, and although I can never truly understand their plight, I cannot agree with any action that promotes an illegal activity.
Imagine the gall of sneaking back into territory that was once their own. Dying in the desert is to good for them greasers.
Next time you buy some real cheap produce at the grocery store you should take time to thank all the illegal migrant workers who perform the work that most gringos refuse to do and keep prices down on all that wonderful food you eat too much of.
How can you equate illegal aliens sneaking across the border with mobsters or gang members? Are you serious?
Some little old lady got run over by a truck yesterday. I was about to feel sorry for her, until I heard that she was jaywalking at the time. So fuck her! She was breaking the law; she deserved to die.
I don’t think people who commit crimes (or just do something stupid for that matter) deserve to die because of it. But if death is a reasonably foreseeable consequence of the action taken (wether it be jaywalking ,or illegal immigration, or skydiving) then you really can’t be too shocked if death is the result.
If you do something that puts you in mortal danger, you have to be willing to accept the consequences.
The US has for over 100 years practiced isolationism and it is a view most Americans agree with. This basically says that we need to close the door on immigration right after my family got here. To suggest that those who are trying to enter the US illegally deserve to die because they were committing a crime is taking this isolationism so much to the extreme that you have lost compassion. What about the fact that there are women and children included in these deaths? There are whole families trying to make a better life for themselves in the US.
What has not been addressed yet is if these survival kits will actually be effective in helping to cut the deaths, or if they will not make a difference, or if they will actually cause the problem to be worse since they can create a false sense of safety in the desert. Another view is that Mexico is encouraging migration of their poor through these kits.
My opinion is that President Fox understands that there will be people trying to leave Mexico. He is doing what he can to make sure that they do not die in the process. What I do not see him addressing is how to improve the economy so that the Mexican people won’t want to migrate. In Mexico there is basically two economic classes–the rich and the poor with hardly any middle class. The gap between the two is very large. Before we in the US become too smug about this, look at how the economy of the US is going. The US is dividing into two classes itself with the middle class moving towards extinction.
What I have not seen is a plan to eliminate the coyote. What can be done to eliminate these parasites and which government (US or Mexico) needs to be responsible for the punishment of the coyote? This is a problem that both countries need to address and they both need to be on the same page in elimination of these scum.
(I would give more sites, but I don’t think I need to prove a majority consensus on history, and I don’t want to look like too much of a dick)
So, it was never their territory, any more than Europe was ever mine.
I don’t equate the crime of illegal immigration with violent felony, but it is a crime. Rather than where the borders were 153 years ago, the issue is the laws of today.
I understand that most Mexicans, including their President Fox, want open borders between our two countries. I can see how this would benefit Mexico. How would this affect the U.S.? I think something similar to German re-unification and the consequences it has had on their economy. The East (with a weaker economy to begin with) has benefitted some from the experience, but for a few years it crippled the west. The main difference here is that we are not talking about unification of the U.S. and Mexico, but one government encouraging their people to break the laws of the other country.
Another difference between the U.S. and Mexico; we have two different cultures, two languages. Two groups who view one another with fear and suspicion. There is resentment among working-class americans here in the west about the huge increase in legal immigration from latin america. I’m not saying it’s right or OK, it’s just human nature and the way things are. I believe that attitudes in general are improving, the situation is getting better for human rights and acceptance. Just understand that changing attitudes takes time. As much as I dislike George Dubya, I agree that we should work towards improving mexico’s economic status before we work on relaxing the border.
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That’s all I have to say about that
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Black slaves who fled were breaking the law. Blacks defying segregation were breaking the law. Jews who tried to escape from concentration camps were braking the law.
Mexicans who cross the border are breaking the law. I do not think I can find any moral justification for a law which says if you were born one mile north of the border you have a right to make a decent living but if you were born one mile south of the border then you are screwed. Either all men are created equal or they are not. Obviously they are not.
I cannot see why a decent person who wants to make a living to support his family is denied rights which are recognised to criminals and other scum of the US.
Everybody wants to be covered by the “equal” thing and then close the door to anybody else. As far as I am concerned those Mexicans have every right to come to the US. To say they should come “legally” is pure hipocrisy. If they could come legally they would not risk their lives doing it illegally.
How hard is it to legally immigrate to the U.S. from Mexico? My best friend was a legal immigrant, his family came over in the early '80s and they weren’t wealthy or skilled in some trade we particularly need (his Dad made saddles).
>> How hard is it to legally immigrate to the U.S. from Mexico?
How about extremely hard? Or do you believe Mexicans are idiots who risk their lives because they can’t be bothered with filling in some forms? And US immigration spends millions to keep out people whose only qualification is they refuse to fill out a form?
Yes, of course many foreigners make it legally. For every one that makes it legally hundreds are denied visas. The fact that you know one who made it here legally means close to nothing. If you were in Mexico you’d know all the ones who were denied. Many of the illegals were denied visas.
Go to http://travel.state.gov/visa_bulletin.html and you can see Mexicans being given visas today have been waiting from 08OCT89 in the worst case to 22OCT94 in the best. The very lucky ones waited 7 years to get a visa, the lucky got it in 12 years, and the rest never got it.
Your post makes as much sense as what was said in another thread:
1 in 250 Americans are in jail
That can’t be true, there are more than 250 people where I work and none are in jail.
Looking at that page for a second time I see those figures are for immigrants with family visas. There is another chart below which lists clases of work related visas and most of them are listed as “current” meaning, no one is waiting. I do not know how to interpret that and probably only an immigration lawyer could explain it. One thing I am sure is that it does not mean any Mexican can go to the consulate and get a visa. Probably it means they have quotas and the quotas are current. Maybe someone can find out. It’s too late for me now.
Open up those alleged “borders”, which are nothing more than eminent domain demarcations of property that does not rightfully belong to the demarcators. Do this in concurrence with eliminating any wealth redistribution schemes to which immigrants might aspire, so that they aspire only to liberty.
Jackass, your link actually proves the pre-1848 border was much farther north. How can you say territory was ceded by treaty and then say it never was their territory? How is it possible then to cede what doesn’t belong to you?
This is from the cite you posted. The 42nd parallel is pretty far north of today’s border.
Quote all the cites you want. The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo which ceded Mexican Territory to the US was forced upon Mexico. The Manifest Destiny at it’s finest.
Back to the OP:
Some estimate the number of undocumented workers currently in agriculture at 600,000, almost 37% of all agricultural workers in the country. By contrast, there are only 18,000 workers in the US on H-2A visas, the only temporary farmworker visa program available.
So there are over 200,000 lawbreakers that need to be punished in agriculture alone. Maybe prison farms are the solution?!
Here are a couple of links dealing with past and present attempts at the illegal immigration problem. http://www.farmworkers.org/bracerop.html
I usually don’t take the pro-illegal immigration stance, however your statement is too ignorent to ignore. If someone puts their life in danger because they want to BASE jump off the Brooklyn Bridge or clime the K2, then yes, you can argue they should accept the conseqences. If you equate this to people risking their lives to escape some third world shithole, then you really should go see what life is like in those countries. People don’t trek across the desert or float 90 miles on a raft made of bannana boxes for shits and giggles.
CBEscapee, jack@ss, Libertarian - Argueing over who has the right to Texas, California, Arizona and New Mexico is a moot point. Right or wrong, it’s part of the United States now and we aren’t going to give it back to Mexico.
Nothing more than eminent domain demarcations? Oh, so defining the region where a government is responsible for the safety of it’s citizens, the stability of its economy, the maintenance of public works and infrastructure is not really that important? I don’t know about you, but I’ve seen Mexico’s infrastructure and I’m pretty sure I don’t want them responsible for fixing my streets.
The problem is that Mexico does not have a stable economy (at least compared to the US and Canada). Opening the borders and letting 10 million unemployed Mexicans come to the US does not solve the problem. Helping Mexico become a more stable economy is a better solutions.
The fight for Elian had two sides, one being the moral and the other was the political. The political was two countries flexing their muscles while trying to avoid a war. I believe Castro used Elian to promote nationalism. This is not a wrong thing to do if at the end the country (Cuba) is better off. I do not know the answer to that and would appreciate if any of the teemings knowing the answer would respond.
The moral side was interesting in that it had as a part whether it is better for a child to have a promising future or to be with a parent. Cuba was portrayed as an evil place to live by the immigrants from there. The father wanted to stay in Cuba and since as far as we know he is a good man, then Elian should be with him. The motives for the father staying in Cuba I assume was addressed in a previous thread (the boards are slow so I can’t do a search). It is not a sin to be poor or to live in a third world country, but it is also normal for a parent to want the best for their child. Obviously, the father thought Cuba was the best place for the child. Father’s decision to make not mine.
I found an abstract by the US border patrol that in 1996 there were 1,568,797 voluntary returns under safeguard “Under this procedure an alien admits to illegal status and agrees to leave the United States without a hearing before an immigration judge.” The alien further agrees to remain in custody until departure…", there were also 50,064 deportations and 18,593 excluded. Aliens from Mexico accounted for 96.9% of the apprehended aliens. http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/aboutins/statistics/statyrbook96/chapter6.pdf
The US Government considers this a minor crime based on how they treat illegal immigrants. The immigrant is picked up and if they voluntarily leave they are bused to Mexico and dropped off. I have known illegal aliens who were picked up on one day, taken to Mexico and were back at work in the US the next day. I grew up about 1/4 mile from a Border Patrol detention center. This is where those caught would stay while awaiting their case to be heard. Minimum security, seemed like a nice place, it had grass in the courtyards which might not seem like much but this is the low desert where green grass year round is hard to do.
Illegal immigrants is a political minefield. The Mexican-American population of California is quickly approaching the majority. Politicians like to keep their jobs so they do not want to alienate these constituents.
I have no problem with deportation policies of the US. But we cannot idly allow people to die trying to get into this country. I am still awaiting someone to debate if these survival kits are part of the answer or not as well as to debate other ideas. I actually can be swayed either way since I am undecided right now on the issue.
Isolationism? I don’t suppose you’re familiar with a little place called Ellis Island? If I recall correctly millions of immigrants from other nations passed through there over the years. DOesn’t sound so isolationist to me.
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I don’t think they deserve to die. However if they engage in an activity that is very risky then we shouldn’t be surprised that a few of them die. I don’t really care if the MExican government provides them with survival kits. Nor do I care if private organizations in the United States helps provide them.
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Yeah, and after seeing Mexico and the United States I can understand why so many try to come over. I’d do the same thing if the roles were reversed.