I do know what it means to be a jerk, which makes it difficult to understand why the board allows the worst kind of jerkiness (racists, Holocaust deniers) but not another (a negative comment on a poster’s behavior).
It’s schizo. And it must make moderating quite difficult.
Because we want to allow discussion of the broadest possible range of topics (within reason, and I admit there are times we’ve stretched that further than it can reasonably go). It can make moderating trickier in a sense because it means we have to step into arguments to tell people they can’t insult someone who is saying something ridiculous, but it makes it easier in a sense because we don’t have to figure out which opinions are inherently jerkish and which are OK. There’s no perfect system for these kinds of situations and I think the one we have is pretty good. No matter what set of rules we have (or even if we had none), people would find a way to push the boundaries.
Frankly, I think mhendo is very lucky to have gotten off with only a suspension instead of a banning. I can hardly think of any more jerkish behavior than PMing “Fuck you” to a mod in response to a warning or a ruling on a warning. He should consider himself fortunate and start to work on learning how to rein in his typically abusive behavior toward others. He has stated to me in the past that he “is an asshole” and that he willingly “owns it.” Perhaps if it were not so in keeping with his overall posting style, mhendo would not have responded as he did.
For reference in case there is still doubt over this:
If a forum member received an abusive private message and subsequently reported it, then the action taken accordingly by the mods should not be subject to any expectation that the offending message is to be reproduced in public as evidence to support the action. The fact that the recipient also at the time happens to be a mod should have no bearing on the situation.
I don’t doubt there is legitimate grievances here somewhere, well certainly over the domain of modding in general as it is invariably contentious. However the lack of acknowledgement on valid points made by “the other side” is really not helping the cause, assuming the goal is to convince the mods to change the way they mod. It also tends to turn the neutrals unsympathetic and take everything else you say on the issue with a grain of salt.
Now that I think about it, posting the accusation that another poster is “junior modding” in their own post is a bit… ironic.
So is nearly every other post of this kind on the board. Heck most snark is intended to be an insult. But you don’t moderate that. That’s what’s so infuriating about twickster’s moderation. She even admits that the normal response to the post she responded to would just be a “knock it off” post. But then she used her emotions to elevate it to a warning. The excuse that he’s been around a while is clear bullshit, as nearly everyone who gets a mod note has been around a while.
twickster used her powers to attack mhendo. Yeah, it’s not smart to attack them back, even when you’ve previously said you can’t moderate PMs and clearly haven’t (as Warnings are all public), despite what TubaDiva says. Of course the mods are going to escalate, as you’ve put their authority in question. The problem I have is not with the suspension, but with the Warning.
As long as you have different rules for different posters at different times depending on what mood you’re in, you’re going to create hostility towards you. And occasionally it’s going to erupt. Sure, mhendo was wrong in how he responded. But you share blame in allowing it to happen. twickster because of what she did, and the rest of you because she’s never been actually punished for her mistakes, meaning she has no reason to try and be on her guard against making them.
Just because someone was a jerk to you does not mean you were not a jerk to them.
I think the larger issue is that Ed Zotti is attempting to have his mods enforce an unsustainable level of decorum for the medium involved. If a rule requires near-constant mod intervention, it says more about the rule than the moderation.
Nah. Just don’t blatantly insult people outside the Pit.
Here’s what Mhendo said that started the ball rolling: Why don’t you just beg for your old job back, already? It’s clear that you can’t get by without it; at least then you’d have some institutional justification for your unwarranted sense of superiority.
*“why don’t you beg for your old job back” = insult. Can you really not see that? A non-insult version would be, “Maybe you should get back into moderation”.
“It’s clear you can’t get by without it” = insult. Non-insult version, “You seem to miss it.”
“at least then you’d have some institutional justification for your unwarranted sense of superiority” = insult. With the previous verbiage, that would probably not be worthy of a warning or note, but in context it adds to the insult. Non-insulting version: “You’re coming off pretty high-handed.”
Almost no one wants to eliminate all cutting remarks outside the pit (brevity, wit, mildness and clear provocation make them more tolerable, but it will always be a judgment call) but Mhendo crossed the line and then doubled-down when called on it.
I think this gets at the heart of the issue for me. Inconsistency. Sometimes it’s a mod note sometimes (usually when the mod ego needs it) it’s an actual warning. There was an issue a few months ago in IMHO where the person actually SAID they knew they were in the wrong forum and that they didn’t give a shit then launched a bunch of fuck missiles and insults and the mod came in after and gave a note. WTF? So a deliberate infraction gets a note and a borderline insult like mhendo gets a warning? Huh? Moderation seems to be at the whim and mood of the moderator and makes very little sense.
And this is funny:
I’m sorry, I’ve seen you personally lie about PM correspondence before so taking your word for it is a joke. You lied completely about an interaction with me and refused to post the PMs. Of course you did, they didn’t match the situation you described. You said I didn’t take my warning well which painted the picture of me ranting at you via PM causing you to have to warn me again. In reality you just didn’t like that I didn’t seem to be taking your warning seriously enough and respecting your authority and I did post the PM. It was pretty easy to see that I hardly flipped out about the warning that I reported my post about.
So asking the board to take the word of someone who outright lied about a similar situation is pretty funny yet I have to give it to you that you have the balls to ask anyway. Bravo!
At this point I doubt **mhendo **even cares. It’s only a suspension from a messageboard and not waterboarding at Gitmo. He’ll come back when it’s over and move on.
But all in all a humiliating comeuppance for a poster who richly deserves it in my opinion. May all the newbies and former newbies who’ve been unneccessarily subjected to his particularly nasty brand of snark for the offense of asking an innocent question take note.