Michael Moore. You Frickin Idiot

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@heatmiserfl

@spark240

I thought, some years back, that a multidenominational shrine, or several shrines, would be a nice thing to put there, except** I suppose militant atheists would object**.

I can’t imagine even ‘militant’ atheists objecting unless ground zero becomes government property. They might make snide remarks though.

Isn’t ground zero owned by the New York Port Authority ?

[mhendo]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

My problem is not with building a mosque on ground zero. It was simply an unneccesarry proposal that was a non-starter. The problem is that it will only further inflame the opposition to the present proposal and subsequently provide further fodder to present America as the enemy of Islam in Islamic media.

It is simply disturbing shit.

So let me follow, for a moment, the convolutions of your mind here.

Person A makes a passionate defense of tolerance, and argues against bigotry. He supports the community center, and the multi-denominational group of people that are making it happen. In frustration at the intolerance and the opposition to the community center, he makes a hyperbolic comment about wanting a 111-story mosque on the site of the WTC.

Persons B though Z become inflamed at this suggestion, and increase their ridiculous and bigoted opposition to the current proposal.

In your mind, the person at fault for inflaming the situation and providing “further fodder to present America as the enemy of Islam” is Person A.

You’re a fucking idiot.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@mhendo

@The_Flying_Dutchman

My problem is not with building a mosque on ground zero. It was simply an unneccesarry proposal that was a non-starter. The problem is that it will only further inflame the opposition to the present proposal and subsequently provide further fodder to present America as the enemy of Islam in Islamic media.

It is simply disturbing shit.

So let me follow, for a moment, the convolutions of your mind here.

Person A makes a passionate defense of tolerance, and argues against bigotry. He supports the community center, and the multi-denominational group of people that are making it happen. In frustration at the intolerance and the opposition to the community center, he makes a hyperbolic comment about wanting a 111-story mosque on the site of the WTC.

Persons B though Z become inflamed at this suggestion, and increase their ridiculous and bigoted opposition to the current proposal.

In your mind, the person at fault for inflaming the situation and providing “further fodder to present America as the enemy of Islam” is Person A.

You’re a fucking idiot.

To follow your line of reasoning, Osama bin Laden has no responsibility for 911.

There is no word to describe how asinine that point of view is.

[mhendo]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

To follow your line of reasoning, Osama bin Laden has no responsibility for 911.

There is no word to describe how asinine that point of view is.

You appear more stupid with every comment you write. You should stop posting before you regress beyond recovery.

[gonzomax]

Something about freedom of religion hard to understand? It would have done a lot for America’s image if the mosque 2 and 1/2 blocks away was greeted with a big so what. If it had been quietly built and no body made note, it would have said a lot about us really living up to our values. This controversy makes us look bad.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@mhendo

@The_Flying_Dutchman

To follow your line of reasoning, Osama bin Laden has no responsibility for 911.

There is no word to describe how asinine that point of view is.

You appear more stupid with every comment you write. You should stop posting before you regress beyond recovery.

You are already beyond recovery.

[Freudian_Slit]

I have no idea what that Osama Bin Laden - 9/11 comment meant…none. In what world would he not be responsible for something that he did?

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@Freudian_Slit

I have no idea what that Osama Bin Laden - 9/11 comment meant…none. In what world would he not be responsible for something that he did?

In mhendo’s world.

[Nancarrow]

@spark240

@Nancarrow

*‘militant’ atheists being the ones who explain their points of view frankly, on the internet and in print - you know, just like those militant Christians who murder abortion providers, and those militant Muslims who fly planes into skyscrapers.

That’s not at all the equivalence I was making (please!)–I’d call atheists or religionists “militant” if they seemed to get angry in the presence of other views, and personally hostile towards holders of those views; we see this on this board. Lunatic murderers, whatever banner they carry, are beyond “militant”–though I suppose they tend to be that, too.

Well, that’s kinda my point actually. You weren’t consciously making an equivalence. You were just participating in theists’ successful rebranding of the word ‘militant’ into uselessness. It used to refer to people who backed up their views with violence. Now it means people who get in a huff (when referring to atheists), whilst retaining its former meaning when referring to theists. You don’t have to MEAN to make an equivalence to, in fact, do so. You’ve fallen for a semantic shell-game perpetrated by dishonest apologists for nonsense. Score one for them.

[Peremensoe]

@Nancarrow

You were just participating in theists’ successful rebranding of the word ‘militant’ into uselessness. It used to refer to people who backed up their views with violence. Now it means people who get in a huff (when referring to atheists), whilst retaining its former meaning when referring to theists.

I use it in the same way for both theists and atheists, and you’ll have to make a better case if you want me to accept that there’s anything wrong or new about that usage. Do you have a cite that it formerly referred exclusively to views actually backed by violence, and not to attitudes?

@Wikipedia

Militant can mean “vigorously active and aggressive, especially in support of a cause” as in ‘militant reformers’.[15] The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, defines militant as “Having a combative character; aggressive, especially in the service of a cause”. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary defines militant as “aggressively active (as in a cause)”.[3] It says that the word militant might be typically be used in phrases such as ‘militant conservationists’ or ‘a militant attitude’.[3]

An example of the adjective usages is demonstrated when The New York Times ran an article titled Militant Environmentalists Planning Summer Protests to Save Redwoods describing a group that believes in “confrontational demonstrations” and “nonviolent tactics” to get across their message of preserving the environment.[16] Another usage example includes ‘a militant political activist’,[17] drawing attention to behaviours typical of those engaged in intensive political activism. The political protests headed by the Reverend Al Sharpton have been described as militant in nature in The Washington Post.[18]

There’s no mention of actual violence here. If the Times can call somebody both “militant” and “nonviolent,” it seems my usage is pretty secure.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

@mhendo

You appear more stupid with every comment you write. You should stop posting before you regress beyond recovery.

You are already beyond recovery.

At least mhendo argues honestly.

[Blaster_Master]

I’m not really sure I see the point here. Michael Moore is already a polarizing figure, so I’m not sure if anything he says will actually have any effect on anything at all. I think the only people who are likely to care at all about what he says are people who are highly likely to already hold a position similar to what he has to say about the issue.

Consider, anyone who is likely to see the statement “I want it built on Ground Zero.” and be offended by it probably already hates him, probably already opposes the building of the “Ground Zero Mosque”, and probably isn’t willing to take the time to read it in context. Hell, even if they do, chances are they’ll still disagree with him anyway.

That is, I think what he’s saying is overwhelming either preaching to the choir or just falling on deaf ears. The only thing I see it doing is increasing his polarizing effect, I don’t see it changing any minds.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@Blaster_Master

I’m not really sure I see the point here. Michael Moore is already a polarizing figure, so I’m not sure if anything he says will actually have any effect on anything at all. I think the only people who are likely to care at all about what he says are people who are highly likely to already hold a position similar to what he has to say about the issue.

Consider, anyone who is likely to see the statement “I want it built on Ground Zero.” and be offended by it probably already hates him, probably already opposes the building of the “Ground Zero Mosque”, and probably isn’t willing to take the time to read it in context. Hell, even if they do, chances are they’ll still disagree with him anyway.

That is, I think what he’s saying is overwhelming either preaching to the choir or just falling on deaf ears. The only thing I see it doing is increasing his polarizing effect, I don’t see it changing any minds.

And I agree.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@Snowboarder_Bo

@The_Flying_Dutchman

You are already beyond recovery.

At least mhendo argues honestly.

I’ll give him that.

[mhendo]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

@Freudian_Slit

I have no idea what that Osama Bin Laden - 9/11 comment meant…none. In what world would he not be responsible for something that he did?

In mhendo’s world.

You’re a fucking retard.

Osama bin Laden was the leader of a network of people who planned and carried out the attacks of 9/11. He knew what was going to happen beforehand, he provided funding and logistical support to the people involved, and he took credit for all of this after the fact.

None of that is in any way analogous to the scenario you painted in your earlier post. Moore has simply made some comments about attitudes to the facilities being built near ground zero, and about American attitudes to Muslims more generally. If people react to his observations with further anti-Muslim sentiment, their reactions are not his responsibility.

The fact that you can’t recognize this crucial difference suggests you’re a fucking drooling moron.

[mhendo]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

@Blaster_Master

That is, I think what he’s saying is overwhelming either preaching to the choir or just falling on deaf ears. The only thing I see it doing is increasing his polarizing effect, I don’t see it changing any minds.

And I agree.

You’re even more idiotic than i thought.

You agree with Blaster Master that Moore’s comments are just “preaching to the choir or just falling on deaf ears,” but you also believe that they will “further inflame the opposition to the present proposal and subsequently provide further fodder to present America as the enemy of Islam in Islamic media.”

Which is it? Are the comments going to have almost no effect, or are they going to inflame things? Make up (what’s left of) your mind.

[The_Flying_Dutchman]

@mhendo

. If people react to his observations with further anti-Muslim sentiment, their reactions are not his responsibility.

Fuck are you stupid !

Suggesting building a mosque on ground zero is not an OBSERVATION

any more than

Suggesting flying a plane into a building.

[Freudian_Slit]

He made a suggestion, but he’s not in a position of getting it built. If Michael Moore makes a statement, it’s not like everyone in America who hears him just leaps into action.

[mhendo]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

Fuck are you stupid !

Suggesting building a mosque on ground zero is not an OBSERVATION

any more than

Suggesting flying a plane into a building.

I need make no response; i simply leave your post to speak for itself.

[Gustav]

@The_Flying_Dutchman

Fuck are you stupid !

Suggesting building a mosque on ground zero is not an OBSERVATION

any more than

Suggesting flying a plane into a building.

Ok, this post is just absolutely fucking fantastic. I seriously can’t stop laughing. Possibly one of the high points of this entire forum.