Michael Moore

[Bruce_Daddy]

Originally posted by Lucki Chaarms *
**I dunno. Moore is really entertaining, I’ll give him that, and he makes some good points, but he can’t expect to be taken seriously by anyone who doesn’t already agree with him. He’s sort of a liberal Michael Savage in that his views are far more extreme than most and he does more to stir sht up/enrage the other side than to actually initiate important dialogue.

<snip> I would just say to confirm anything you hear from him with an independent source before you make decisions based on it or pass it on as truth.

LC **

Exactly.

And, Troy McClure SF here’s a good read. Not exactly a reputable news source but how can we expect the “left wing media” to be objective about Moore?

[Bruce_Daddy]

*Originally posted by MixieArmadillo *
**Linkety link

It’s about a third of the way down the page where he actually starts addressing the accusations. The gun in the bank promo thing is the first of them. **

From that website:

Well of course it was staged! It’s a movie! We built the “bank” as a set and then I hired actors to play the bank tellers and the manager and we got a toy gun from the prop department and then I wrote some really cool dialogue for me and them to say! Pretty neat, huh?

Nice “documentary”, Mike.

[stpauler]

*Originally posted by Bruce_Daddy *
**From that website:

Nice “documentary”, Mike. **

Nice "reading comprehension skills, Bruce_Daddy

The next paragraph after what you quoted:

The Truth: In the spring of 2001, I saw a real ad in a real newspaper in Michigan announcing a real promotion that this real bank had where they would give you a gun (as your up-front interest) for opening up a Certificate of Deposit account. They promoted this in publications all over the country – “More Bang for Your Buck!”

There was news coverage of this bank giving away guns, long before I even shot the scene there. The Chicago Sun Times wrote about how the bank would “hand you a gun” with the purchase of a CD. Those are the precise words used by a bank employee in the film.

:rolleyes: You wanna try that again?

[JohnM]

Bruce_Daddy, I’m sure that you just perused the article, and didn’t read the section immediately after the one that you quoted, right? Because otherwise you’d be guilty of the kind of selective quoting that Moore is being accused of.

Some sections clipped for brevity. See Bruce_Daddy’s link for the full quote

Or…

The Truth: In the spring of 2001, I saw a real ad in a real newspaper in Michigan announcing a real promotion that this real bank had where they would give you a gun (as your up-front interest) for opening up a Certificate of Deposit account…

When you see me going in to the bank and walking out with my new gun in “Bowling for Columbine” – that is exactly as it happened. Nothing was done out of the ordinary other than to phone ahead and ask permission to let me bring a camera in to film me opening up my account. I walked into that bank in northern Michigan for the first time ever on that day in June 2001, and, with cameras rolling, gave the bank teller $1,000 – and opened up a 20-year CD account. After you see me filling out the required federal forms … the bank manager faxed it to the bank’s main office for them to do the background check. The bank is a licensed federal arms dealer and thus can have guns on the premises and do the instant background checks (the ATF’s Federal Firearms database—which includes all federally approved gun dealers—lists North Country Bank with Federal Firearms License #4-38-153-01-5C-39922).

Within 10 minutes, the “OK” came through from the firearms background check agency and, 5 minutes later, just as you see it in the film, they handed me a Weatherby Mark V Magnum rifle.

[JohnM]

My first simulpost. I’m so proud.

[Ghanima]

Bruce_Daddy, did you read a little more? He was being sarcastic. He goes on to explain in the very next paragraph what actually happened.
IMHO I think MM is good for keeping a dialogue going. I saw Bowling for Columbine and actually I thought he was an obnoxious prick to nearly everyone he talked to in that movie, but I think that keeping democratic ideas on people’s minds is good for everyone. I think the reason that he sounds whiny is because he IS whiny. But so what?

[Ghanima]

Wow. Guess a bunch of us jumped for that one.

[stpauler]

*Originally posted by Bruce_Daddy *
**Exactly.

And, Troy McClure SF here’s a good read. Not exactly a reputable news source but how can we expect the “left wing media” to be objective about Moore? **

And this article. Well, the first point this “whatever-dude” makes is :

1. A radical socialist who lives in a palatial New York apartment and sends his daughter to one of the most expensive private schools in the country.

Moore debunked where he lives according to the linkey link up above:

Newsweek wrote that I live in a penthouse on Central Park West (I live above a Baby Gap store, and not on any park),

[Llama_Llogophile]

I’m very wary of Michael Moore, especially because I’m generally predisposed to agree with him on many issues. So I take everything he says with a grain of salt.

In the end, he only has one advantage over the Coulter-O’Reilly types: a better sense of humor.

[stpauler]

And, FWIW, I’m not a Moore fan, supported, compatriot, comrade either. I just don’t like the ignorance being spun on this thread.

[Bruce_Daddy]

*Originally posted by stpauler *
**Nice "reading comprehension skills, Bruce_Daddy

The next paragraph after what you quoted:
:rolleyes: You wanna try that again? **

I thought the point was how easy it was for Mike to walk into a bank, deposit money and get handed a rifle. After being confronted, he admits he had to take out a twenty year CD, fill out the federally required paperwork, get an FBI background check.

Was that in the movie?

And don’t roll your eyes at me young man!

[NajaNivea]

Yes.

I walked into that bank in northern Michigan for the first time ever on that day in June 2001, and, with cameras rolling, gave the bank teller $1,000 – and opened up a 20-year CD account. After you see me filling out the required federal forms (“How do you spell Caucasian?”) – which I am filling out here for the first time – the bank manager faxed it to the bank’s main office for them to do the background check. The bank is a licensed federal arms dealer and thus can have guns on the premises and do the instant background checks (the ATF’s Federal Firearms database—which includes all federally approved gun dealers—lists North Country Bank with Federal Firearms License #4-38-153-01-5C-39922).

(from the above-linked site, bolding mine)

[Tars_Tarkas]

*Originally posted by Bruce_Daddy *
**Was that in the movie?
**

Let’s see:

Depost money: Check!
Get gun: Check!

I guess it was. You lose. If this is the best you can do to criticize Mr. Moore, i suggest you don’t quit your day job.

[Bruce_Daddy]

No.

Although a bank employee makes a brief reference to a “background check,” the only thing we see is Moore filling out a form where he says he is not crazy, or a criminal - and of course, that he’s white; although he stumbles on spelling the word ‘Caucasian’ (which I actually had to just fix on spell checker) to further paint the process as unofficial and unsafe while feeding his ‘Stupid White Men’ theme in the same punch.

The audience never sees the process whereby the bank requires Moore to produce photo identification, then contacts the FBI for a criminal records check on Moore, before he is allowed to take possession of the rifle. Moments later, Moore is handed his new rifle in the North Country Bank & Trust lobby, at which point he asks another unnamed bank employee, “Do you think it’s a little dangerous handing out guns in a bank?”

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/bowlingforcolumbine/scenes/bank.htm

And for the record, I was wrong above. I only skimmed the artice above.

[Age_Quod_Agis]

stpauler, the language you’ve quoted by Moore does not “debunk” the language from whateverdude.com. Even if Moore lives above a Baby Gap and does not live on a park, he could still live in a palatial New York apartment and send his kids to expensive schools.

I think Moore talks about subjects that need to be discussed, but his distortions don’t do anyone any good.

Here’s a better cite debunking “Bowling for Columbine.” the few rebuttals offered on Moore’s website do little to counter many of the outright falsehoods pointed out on the website linked above.

[NajaNivea]

Bruce_Daddy, it seems rather clear that you haven’t actually seen the movie, so I’m sorry if that’s an incorrect assumption.
It’s been a month or two since I saw it, but it wasn’t at all unclear in that scene that there was a federal background check done. The bank is a licensed firearm dealer, so they can perform the background check right then and there, which is stated in that scene. It shows him filling out the form and, if I recall correctly, there’s a brief shot of him standing around while the background check is completed. They do state that a background check will be performed.
Jeebus, man, I’m not saying the film is a paragon of virtue and perfection of fact, but at least watch it before criticizing it.

[NajaNivea]

Bruce_Daddy, it seems rather clear that you haven’t actually seen the movie, so I’m sorry if that’s an incorrect assumption.
It’s been a month or two since I saw it, but it wasn’t at all unclear in that scene that there was a federal background check done. The bank is a licensed firearm dealer, so they can perform the background check right then and there, which is stated in that scene. It shows him filling out the form and, if I recall correctly*, there’s a brief shot of him standing around while the background check is completed. They do state that a background check will be performed.
Jeebus, man, I’m not saying the film is a paragon of virtue and perfection of fact, but at least watch it before criticizing it.

*Always an iffy proposition.

[Saint_Zero]

*Originally posted by Joachim Pieper *
**Hi,
Can anyone fill me in a bit on Michael Moore? I’m just wading through Dude, Where’s my Country? and I was wondering why he whines quite as much as he does.
**

He’s a whiny idiot, that’s why. Don’t pay attention to him.

[Rusty_Scupper]

He’s a goof with a microphone and no real ideas or talent or skill as an interviewer.
He just hollers at people and when their doorman tells him to go pedal his papers elsewhere he thinks he’s “gotten to them”.
Yet usually the people he rails at are totally unaware of him.
Any cub reporter could get in and do a real story, but that’s not what he’s about.

[Chefguy]

*Originally posted by Rusty Scupper *
**He’s a goof with a microphone and no real ideas or talent or skill as an interviewer.
He just hollers at people and when their doorman tells him to go pedal his papers elsewhere he thinks he’s “gotten to them”.
Yet usually the people he rails at are totally unaware of him.
Any cub reporter could get in and do a real story, but that’s not what he’s about. **

He is a bit of a goof, but I disagree with your assessment of his skills, however clumsy they may be. I have yet to hear him ‘holler’ at anybody, regardless of how well deserved it might be.

Charleton Heston was certainly aware of him, as was K-Mart. That they apparently pulled the ammunition off the shelves kinda speaks to his effectiveness on the issue, wouldn’t you say?

Moore is not a reporter, nor to my knowledge does he claim to be one. He makes documentaries (or mock-umentaries) and writes satirical books. His animus comes from what he perceives as gross inequities in America. I only wish that he was a better spokesman for it, because America needs to generate some genuine outrage at what has happened to our country over the last 30 years or so.

If he wrote books in a dry, academic style or made movies that only tweed-clad pipe smokers would watch, his point would be lost. As it is, his writing and film-making styles not only spark discussions such as these, but honest political debate.