Michael Richards goes on beserk racist rant during nightclub act.

The BBQ Pit
161

[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
Sure, he fucked up. I’m not convinced that he fucked up in an unforgiveable fashion, however: he lost his temper in a nasty way, but I believe that what he did is far, far less bad than, say, punching someone in the nose would have been.
[/quote]

If he was someone like Brad Pitt, this would be nothing a few months, a couple more overseas adoptions, and an Oprah interview wouldn’t take care of. But this is Michael Richards. This is the most attention the guy will ever see for the rest of his life. Sorry, but he can’t come back from this. I don’t even know if he had what it takes to make a comeback before this happened. He could have fashioned together a career out of doing movie cameos and guest star appearances on NBC sit-coms, but I can’t see that working for him now.

Punching someone in the nose is relatively easy to forgive. Plenty of celebrities have been violent and not suffered publically for it. If you had to compare this blow-up to a comparable physical attack, think about how well Mike Tyson has been able to rise above his ear-eating reputation.

162

[QUOTE=D_Odds]
I think you’ve confused me with someone else. I’ve only one post in this thread, and I only said that I don’t know why he chose those words.
[/QUOTE]

I’m sorry…my bad.

163

[QUOTE=you with the face]
If he was someone like Brad Pitt, this would be nothing a few months, a couple more overseas adoptions, and an Oprah interview wouldn’t take care of.
[/QUOTE]

I’m actually not interested in what it’d take to repair his career: I’m interested in what he could do to make amends from a moral perspective. It seems a harsh worldview that morally condemns someone for the rest of their life for saying something horrifying.

Daniel

164

[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
I’m still interested in where folks think Richards should go from here. If we assume that he truly wants to try to make amends for his acts (not necessarily a safe assumption–I’m making it for the sake of argument), what should he do next?

Daniel
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If you read my post (I think it’s #151), you might get an idea of what I think, but I’ll say it here.

Once, just ONCE, I would love for a white person in Michael Richards’s position to say, in a very public way, something like this: You know what, folks? Let’s quit it with the “I’m not racist” bullshit. I’m white, and I grew up in a country that has murdered, abused, and mistreated black people in any way possible. And that includes teaching young white kids, in ways insidious and not so insidious, that treating and thinking of black people as inferior to whites–nay, as inferior even to the common cockroach–is not only acceptable and expected of them as white citizens, but will ensure them a place of dominance within white American society. True, we have learned to pay lip service to Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, and we’ve learned to pay lip service to the notion of equality for all Americans, blah-blah-blah. And when we’re still in our 20’s and total shmendriks [LP: wet behind the years, for non-Yiddishly inclined Dopers], we play this game very well, and we argue with our conservative elders and defend affirmative action and preach the good word that the social ills in poor black communities are the result of post-traumatic-slavery-disorder. But we grow up. We grow up, we get jobs, we want houses in safe neighborhoods, and we learn to live our truth, a truth that’s been transmitted spittle-like, from white parent to white child, the truth that, fuck how illogical it may seem to a thinking person, but blacks ain’t shit. They are not to be avoided insofar as one can do so. Don’t marry them, don’t let them live in your neighborhoods, and if you can avoid hiring them without the hassle of the EEOC or some liberal, do-gooder (probably Jewish) lawyer, then do so. I stand before you today, contrite and ashamed for having done my share to propagate a “truth” that I know–that any rational person knows–is a lie. And if exposing this truth makes me a traitor to the white (supremacist) race, then a race traitor I am. Now, can we please get to work on undoing the damage that’s been done?

Not my best work, I’m sorry to say, but yeah, something like that. Anyway, I’m not holding my breath.

(Actually I’ve been lucky to know honest–not naive and doe-eyed, but honest–white folks such as I’ve described here–and yeah, some of 'em really are my best friends–but they’re neither powerful nor famous. so all they can do is do the best that they can.)

165

I can certainly understand the urge to hurt someone as much as you possibly can, and calling a black person “nigger” would do it. But whether or not we suppress the urge to use a racial slur to hurt someone speaks to how we truly feel. I can understand why he would say “nigger” to the the guy in an uncontrolled fit of anger - but that’s still no excuse and he absolutely shouldn’t have. But then he takes it to a totally different place - lashing out in such a public, hateful, uncontrolled way. I believe he really was lashing out at all black people - he meant what he was saying.

I’m not one of those people who get their assholes all clenched up when someone uses a racial slur in a joking way. In fact, my mom and I like to tease my uber-PC sister by making offensive jokes. But they are JOKES, and designed solely to poke fun at her. To really believe stuff like that absolutely does offend me. I think Michael Richards meant every word he said. He’s not going to ramble his way out of this. I hope he does do some serious soul-searching.

166

[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
I’m still interested in where folks think Richards should go from here. If we assume that he truly wants to try to make amends for his acts (not necessarily a safe assumption–I’m making it for the sake of argument), what should he do next?

Daniel
[/QUOTE]

This is indeed an interesting question, and it’s sad that there is no successful model out there for people to emulate. Some of the most prominent antiracist educators have pointed out that there are few role models for Whites regarding how to navigate and discuss issues of race effectively with people of color; there are probably even fewer role models of redemption.

Here’s my formula for what might be successful (keep in mind this has to be done honestly, not for the cameras):

  1. Reflection - alone, Richards has to do some soul-searching about why these words came out of his mouth. Has he always harbored prejudicial and racist thoughts? Did something happen to trigger this?

  2. Learning - if his words came from a lack of exposure to Black people, or a belief that Blacks are taking jobs from White people, he needs to open some books and go to some seminars to learn.

  3. Re-emerge - if he has any kind of career to speak of, he needs to come back talking about his experience. Not acting as if nothing happened, but to say that he really screwed up, spent some time reflecting on what he previously thought, and that he knows a little more about the world around him.

  4. Use his “celebrity” to work against racism (if he truly rehabilitates himself) - actively seeking out PSAs, documentaries, etc. that give him a chance to revisit the experience and explain to people how he learned from it.

Basically, it’s the same script that former drug users and alcoholics have used for years. The cynic in me says that many people don’t mean half of what they say, but I know some people are honest about confronting their problems with alcohol/drugs, start to take better care of themselves, and admit that their efforts to improve themselves are difficult but necessary.

167

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
I’m sorry…my bad.
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NP. As a tri-racial person, I’ve been the proverbial fly on the wall, around those who did not know better, enough times to realize that sometimes racist remarks are sometimes stupidity or ‘tribalism’ (I’m sure there is a better word, but I can’t think of it). By that, I mean it’s no different from an Englishman talking about how the English are better than the Welsh or a New Yorkers smug superiority over a New Jerseyian (which I joke about all the time). The stupidity comes from how these people don’t realize how words dividing people racially tend to carry more weight. I’ve also been exposed to outright racism, and it’s a LOT uglier than the stupid tribalism along racial lines.

168

[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
I’m actually not interested in what it’d take to repair his career: I’m interested in what he could do to make amends from a moral perspective.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t see his behavior as an offense against morality, so I don’t know how to answer your question.

If President Bush let it slip out in an interview that he doesn’t believe that the Holocaust occured, even if he later went back and apologized for voicing that opinion, it wouldn’t really change my impression of his intelligence or character. This isn’t a moral assessment. It’s an assessment of what he’s revealed himself to be. I don’t know if you can really make amends for that.

169

[QUOTE=cowgirl]
…
If it is, riddle me this: how is it that I (not by any means a black man) have never, ever had someone clutch their purse tighter or lock their car doors when I approach?

How is it that this is not the first time I have heard a black man report that this happens to him regularly?

If he (along with all the other black men I refer to) is imagining it all, how do you explain MY experience (or am I imagining it all too)?
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I believe you both are.

Here’s something that might interest you: Observer-expectancy effect.

I pat my wallet all the time. It’s just an ingrained habit. Someone like Cowgirl would never notice me doing it, because she’s not looking for it. If she did notice, she would likely think “That guy’s checking to see if his wallet is still there. Maybe he’s afraid of losing it. That’s got nothing to do with me”. Someone like Li’l Pluck on the other hand, would notice me doing it, because he’s looking for it. He’s going to think “That guy’s checking to see if his wallet is still there. He must be thinking some nigger’s going to steal it”.

It’s a very common effect, it’s very powerful, and there isn’t really any way to know when you’re affected by it. The only way to know for sure would be to ask me why I’m checking for my wallet, and assume I’m telling the truth. Or do a double-blind study.

170

[QUOTE=Sampiro]
…so I wonder why he even works if heckling (which you’d think somebody who’s been in stand-up as long as he has would be used to) drives him that batshit crazy…
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My understanding is that he has not done much standup at all, and that is part of the problem. If he had done much standup, he’d know how to handle this. He

171

But Li’l Puck, I don’t think your scenario of coming clean about racism makes any sense. We teach kids to pay lip service to the notion of equality. And the believe it when they’re kids. Then they grow up and learn that all those racial attitudes were useful and make white people powerful, so they change into racists?

It doesn’t make any sense.

Look, the reality is that while there are some really obsessed race-haters out there, most white people don’t really think about race that much. The thing to remember is that the experience of being degraded and the experience of doing the degrading aren’t equal. The guy who yells at the waitress doesn’t get as much pleasure from degrading the waitress as she gets displeasure in being degraded. She gets a big old helping of degradation, and he gets a tiny spoonful of empowerment.

So white people don’t put down black people because for every step they push down black people white people get to take a step up. No, for every step you push the other guy down you get to go up by only one little fraction of an inch, if that. Or the old cliche about the older siblings and the younger siblings reminiscing about their childhoods, and the younger sibling remembers every time the bigger kid beat them up or took their favorite toy or treated them like shit, and the older kid doesn’t know what they’re talking about. The little kid damn sure remembers her anger the time the big kid cut the head off her Barbie doll, but does the big kid? Maybe he’ll remember it vaguely, but he’s not going to remember it as the time he committed deliberate evil to torture his sister, he’ll remember it as just an argument.

Anyway, my point is that the racist employer who decides to give the job to the white candidate rather than the black candidate doesn’t have nearly the emotional investment in preventing the black guy from getting the job that the black guy has in getting the job. He’s probably not sitting there thinking how glad he is to deny the black guy a job and how good it is to give the negroes one more kick in the ass, he just thought he’d rather be around white guys and doesn’t give it any more thought.

The comparison the economic externalities is obvious. Contrary to “Captain Planet” corporate executives don’t pollute the water and air because they love toxic sludge and get a boner thinking about giving schoolchildren cancer. No, they create pollution because it costs money to clean up after yourself, and it’s too much trouble and they’re not running a public service, they’re trying to make money in a very competitive marketplace.

172

[QUOTE=Ludovic]
I congratulate you on your very successful career. I know this because you no doubt have been able to overcome the prejudice against people of your skin tone with your amazing psychic mind-reading ability.

When are you trying out for the Randi prize?
[/QUOTE]

Hm! Well, that didn’t take long, did it? (And thanks, cowgirl, for backing me up.)

While I wish that I had the energy to offer a clever response, I don’t right now (have to go to bed so I can get up at 23:30 for my very successful career as a third-shift legal word processor, which I do in order to pay the bills while I study towards a degree which I hope will get me an actual very successful (well, intellectually and spiritually fulfilling, anyway) career.

I’ll just second what **cowgirl ** said. I’m not the first black man to say this, and I won’t be the last. Oh, and this kind of shit doesn’t happen to white folks–not the way it happens to black folks. What, do you think we make this shit up for giggles? Do you think there’s a conspiracy among rational, sane black folks to make guilty liberal white folks feel bad just because we (think we) can? You think I dig going out into the world everyday, knowing that some anonymous white person who knows nothing about me beyond the color of my skin (and, too, some non-anonymous white people who who know more about me beyond the color of my skin) will act in ways that let me know that, no matter how many Ivy League degrees I might obtain, no matter how successful a (legitimate) career I might ultimately have (please, Og, don’t fail me now), no matter how many jail cells and prisons I’ve **never ** been in, I am still, and will remain, for them and many, many more like them, just. A. Nigger? Yeah, man, good times. Pass the watermelon. (Lest folks get the wrong impression: Going into the world everday under these circumstances is generally not that deep for me. I mean, it doesn’t paralyze me or anything like that. You realize that it can happen, and that, somewhere along the way, it probably will happen, but with years of experience, you learn to weave these experiences into the fabric of your day–and existence–when it does happen. Not that it doesn’t sting sometimes–it does–but you do learn how to survive and go on about your business. You fight the battles that you can fight, and you learn that others are simply not worth your energy/time.)

[QUOTE=Ludovic]
I am not questioning the actions, I am questioning the deprecations we supposedly leave unuttered but nonetheless thought. Even Jesse Jackson understands that you would avoid strange people in a bad section of town, it doesn’t mean that you are slurring them in your mind.
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I almost can’t believe you went down to the strawman-o-mart and came back with this, though I’m not surprised, either, that you did.

Hell, I’m not even sure how to respond. :confused: You surely cannot seriously be attempting to confuse what I said with…aww, fuck it. Will someone just please hand me the matches?

[QUOTE=Ludovic]
I’ve never called anyone that, not even in my mind. Of course, that will be hard to avoid since it is now a Blue Elephant. But the number of times that will inevitably happen can’t compare to the number of times I’ve been singled out by my race, which is undoubtedly several orders of magnitude less than most black people, but at the same time infinitely more times than how often I personally do it.
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You’ve never called anyone that, not even in your mind? Obviously I can’t speak to that, so I’ll have to take your word for it (which I have no problem doing). But tell me something, please. What do **you ** think a white person is thinking when, upon seeing an average black man in the course of their travels, they do (and you seem to acknowledge as much) what I claim they do? Not in North Philly, not in still-gritty parts of Harlem, or [insert your local ghetto here], and not in the dark of night, but in broad daylight in Mid-town Manhattan or, say, the campus of Columbia University? Or are you not as able to read minds as well as I?
And I’ll second **lisacurl’s ** :rolleyes: while I gather up the courage to read your response to my other post. I almost shudder.

173

[QUOTE=MrSquishy]
I believe you both are.

Here’s something that might interest you: Observer-expectancy effect … .
[/QUOTE]
All fine and good. How would you explain, then, that when I am by myself it never happens, but when I am walking with a black man, it does?

Or you could try walking into a CD/clothing/electronics store one day, by yourself, and note the reactions of the staff. Then, walk into that same store the next day, but this time with one of your black guy friends, and note the reactions of the staff.

Nobody has ever apporached me on the street to try to buy pot from me. However, I have found that my black male friends are regularly mistaken for drug dealers (no matter how they dress or what they are doing at the time. One time, in fact, we were out walking the dog and one of us reeked of herb and it wasn’t the black guy, yet he was the one that was solicited). Is that observer-expectancy effect too?

174

[QUOTE=MrSquishy]
I believe you both are.

Here’s something that might interest you: Observer-expectancy effect.

I pat my wallet all the time. It’s just an ingrained habit. Someone like Cowgirl would never notice me doing it, because she’s not looking for it. If she did notice, she would likely think “That guy’s checking to see if his wallet is still there. Maybe he’s afraid of losing it. That’s got nothing to do with me”. Someone like Li’l Pluck on the other hand, would notice me doing it, because he’s looking for it. He’s going to think “That guy’s checking to see if his wallet is still there. He must be thinking some nigger’s going to steal it”.

It’s a very common effect, it’s very powerful, and there isn’t really any way to know when you’re affected by it. The only way to know for sure would be to ask me why I’m checking for my wallet, and assume I’m telling the truth. Or do a double-blind study.
[/QUOTE]

This is an interesting point you make, MrSquishy, as, believe it or not, I have indeed seen white guys pat their wallets when there hasn’t been a black person (or the other usual suspect, a highly identifiable Latino, usually Puerto Rican or Dominican) within steal-the-wallet proximity. And just so you know, it’s not that I’m always “looking” for the guy to transmit unspoken clues about how he feels/might feel about black people, but because I think he’s cute, and I’m *totally * checking out his ass. :smiley:

(Which raises an interesting question. I wonder how many white guys have confused my checking them out with other, more nefarious motives? I mean, this usually doesn’t happen when I’m lusting over black or Latino men. It happens sometimes when I’m checking out Asian and Southeast Asian men, but not as much as with white dudes. Hmmm.)

Oh, I also notice this sometimes just because I do a fair amount of people watching, just innocently and non-lasciviously.

Since I anticipate my major to be sociology, and since I’m so interested in the sociology of (surprise!) race and ethnicity, I’ve actually thought that I might like to do a study like this.

175

[QUOTE=Lemur866]
But Li’l Puck, I don’t think your scenario of coming clean about racism makes any sense. We teach kids to pay lip service to the notion of equality. And the believe it when they’re kids. Then they grow up and learn that all those racial attitudes were useful and make white people powerful, so they change into racists?

It doesn’t make any sense. …
[/QUOTE]

Just on a first reading, I *think * I get what you’re saying, Lemur866, and I’d like to respond, but since I *really * need to get to bed and can’t give your post the response I think it deserves right now, I’d like to hold off until tonight (if it’s not busy at work) or tomorrow (if I can’t get to it tonight).

176

Actually, in my personal experience, apporaching the black guy when you need pot is not automatically done in a negative connatation. The couple of times I’ve done that in a pinch, it wasn’t done in a stereotypical “all black guys sell weed thing”, it was more “if this guy isn’t selling weed, I’m more confident he wont go tell a cop that I am inquiring about pot than I am asking a white guy the same thing.”

177

[QUOTE=Harborwolf]
I watched the whole clip and I really think you’re wrong. They laugh at the “fork up your ass” thing I believe because they just thought he was yelling at a heckler. The audience clearly turned when he screamed the word “nigger” and kept hurling profanity. That’s when they started getting up and walking out, or yelling back that he crossed the line. Even more telling is that in his Letterman apology, he never mentioned that it was a joke gone wrong.
[/QUOTE]
Which is what I said. But lisacurl apparently lacks reading comprehension and insists I said people kept laughing through the entire incident. Hey, whatever makes her little world work.

178

[QUOTE=Li’l Pluck]
Hm! Well, that didn’t take long, did it? (And thanks, cowgirl, for backing me up.)

While I wish that I had the energy to offer a clever response, I don’t right now (have to go to bed so I can get up at 23:30 for my very successful career as a third-shift legal word processor, which I do in order to pay the bills while I study towards a degree which I hope will get me an actual very successful (well, intellectually and spiritually fulfilling, anyway) career.

I’ll just second what **cowgirl ** said. I’m not the first black man to say this, and I won’t be the last. Oh, and this kind of shit doesn’t happen to white folks–not the way it happens to black folks. What, do you think we make this shit up for giggles? Do you think there’s a conspiracy among rational, sane black folks to make guilty liberal white folks feel bad just because we (think we) can? You think I dig going out into the world everyday, knowing that some anonymous white person who knows nothing about me beyond the color of my skin (and, too, some non-anonymous white people who who know more about me beyond the color of my skin) will act in ways that let me know that, no matter how many Ivy League degrees I might obtain, no matter how successful a (legitimate) career I might ultimately have (please, Og, don’t fail me now), no matter how many jail cells and prisons I’ve **never ** been in, I am still, and will remain, for them and many, many more like them, just. A. Nigger? Yeah, man, good times. Pass the watermelon. (Lest folks get the wrong impression: Going into the world everday under these circumstances is generally not that deep for me. I mean, it doesn’t paralyze me or anything like that. You realize that it can happen, and that, somewhere along the way, it probably will happen, but with years of experience, you learn to weave these experiences into the fabric of your day–and existence–when it does happen. Not that it doesn’t sting sometimes–it does–but you do learn how to survive and go on about your business. You fight the battles that you can fight, and you learn that others are simply not worth your energy/time.)

I almost can’t believe you went down to the strawman-o-mart and came back with this, though I’m not surprised, either, that you did.

Hell, I’m not even sure how to respond. :confused: You surely cannot seriously be attempting to confuse what I said with…aww, fuck it. Will someone just please hand me the matches?

You’ve never called anyone that, not even in your mind? Obviously I can’t speak to that, so I’ll have to take your word for it (which I have no problem doing). But tell me something, please. What do **you ** think a white person is thinking when, upon seeing an average black man in the course of their travels, they do (and you seem to acknowledge as much) what I claim they do? Not in North Philly, not in still-gritty parts of Harlem, or [insert your local ghetto here], and not in the dark of night, but in broad daylight in Mid-town Manhattan or, say, the campus of Columbia University? Or are you not as able to read minds as well as I?
And I’ll second **lisacurl’s ** :rolleyes: while I gather up the courage to read your response to my other post. I almost shudder.
[/QUOTE]

Actually it does happen to white people ,when they are teenagers. 3 or 4 teens walking into a restaurant get some of that. Age does make it go away for us.We do not stay teens. But I do remember the feeling when I walked in and people looked at me like I was trouble. I just wanted a cup of coffee.

179

His career is over. I do not see any escape from what he did. Hope Seinfield residuals are enough.

180

[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
Actually, in my personal experience, apporaching the black guy when you need pot is not automatically done in a negative connatation. The couple of times I’ve done that in a pinch, it wasn’t done in a stereotypical “all black guys sell weed thing”, it was more “if this guy isn’t selling weed, I’m more confident he wont go tell a cop that I am inquiring about pot than I am asking a white guy the same thing.”
[/QUOTE]

Heh. So you’ve shifted from one stereotype to another.

I will never forget the time that I was approached by a white guy in downtown Atlanta. “Hey, do you know where we can get some weed?” he asked. I was too shocked to tell him that I’d never even smoked a joint before, let alone knew of any dealers.

For future reference, it is generally rude to assume someone is privy to illegal activities. Some black folks care about the law too, you know.