Michelle Obama was my hero today

[russian_heel]

@Aji_de_Gallina

A fully symbolic role, which is, at most, a bully pulpit-by-proxy. Also, it’s a position where the only requierment is being married to a powerful guy, not something modern-day women should really aspire to. She has no real power, and the little symbolic power she has derives fully from her being married to POTUS.

Nobody would know who Michelle LaVaughn Robinson was if her husband wasn’t presidnet.

We don’t know that.

Many close to the Obamas have stated they were surprised that it was Barack, and not Michelle, who ended up in politics. She’s not someone who rode to the top just because she gave good blowjobs. The same goes for Hillary Clinton, who is fairly close to becoming President herself (not to mention a Senator, and Secretary of State).

Your implied assertion that the only reason Michelle Obama has any press is because she spread her legs for the President of the United States and then hides behind him I find to be a bit misogynistic since it is clear she is capable of a similar career path herself, but for whatever reason (kids?) she chose to stop aside and let her husband take those opportunities.

As Ibn Warraq said, headscarf laws don’t apply to foreigners so even if the gesture was intended, it didn’t register. Moreso if other US women, with actual legal power I might add, had already done it before.
There is NO leverage, there is NO message.

Absolutely there is because when foreign women come to Saudi Arabia and dont cover up it causes gasping and placing of hands over mouth in conservative Saudi Arabian circles, legal or not. And what bigger foreign woman to do so than the First Lady of the United States?

I see that the horrible, systematic mistreatment of women in SA is less important than their help. The message is, “Saudi women, we’ll have a meaningless, empty gesture as show of our non-existing support for your plight”.

The United States is well documented in sending official condemnations in many Saudi Arabian human rights issues, including those against women. Cutting off a loyal ally unless they drastically change their human rights policies is not going to help anyone, if anything, it could alienate and isolate the Saudi government and maybe make it worse.

Being an influential ally, yes WITH LEVERAGE, and reminding them we know what they are up to and we don’t like it is the only thing that will bring slow, gradual change to that society.

I read that as “entitled woman gets to throw tantrum hiding behind her husband’s power”.
What message did she send and to whom?
Did the message register?

It’s more of a like-this-FB-page-if you-suport-Saudi-women in the real world of actual things that help.

Tantrum? What tantrum? She showed up sans that scarf and did ruffle some feathers. Her symbolic act is way more effective than a Facebook “like”.

Of course it’s exagerated and hypothetical, it was the whole fucking point.

So you admit that a Saudi official NEVER visited the White House with 4 women bowing down to him, is that a correct statement.

I have no idea what you’re talking about.

If you abandon Saudi Arabia as an ally in the Middle East, you make Iran, a country with even worse civil rights abuses, even more powerful than it already is in that part of the world. Sometimes with allies, you have to hold your nose as your signing treaties of friendship.

[Aji_de_Gallina]

@levdrakon

The US First Lady is watched all over the world and she is very much a symbol for women the world over, and there are lots of women around the world who benefit from little things like the First Lady ditching the head scarf. The Obamas are wildly well-known, watched and admired around Africa, and that’s a good thing

She is not, even remotely, a symbol for women the world over.
Can you show any reasonable path where her not-scarfing, which is what every female dignatary does (even does with real power like HRC and Condoleeza) has imporved even in a subatomic level the life of even a single woman?

[QUOTE]

@russian_heel

We don’t know that.

Many close to the Obamas have stated they were surprised that it was Barack, and not Michelle, who ended up in politics. She’s not someone who rode to the top just because she gave good blowjobs. The same goes for Hillary Clinton, who is fairly close to becoming President herself (not to mention a Senator, and Secretary of State).

Your implied assertion that the only reason Michelle Obama has any press is because she spread her legs for the President of the United States and then hides behind him I find to be a bit misogynistic since it is clear she is capable of a similar career path herself, but for whatever reason (kids?) she chose to stop aside and let her husband take those opportunities.

I’m not implying, I’m stating it squarely, the reason she gets press as the First Lady is (simplifying a lot and being a bit of a dick) because she spreads her legs for POTUS. She might cure cancer tomorrow, but until then, Michelle LaVaughn Robinson will be know only to her friends.
The only answer to the question “Who is Michelle Obama?” is “Barack Obama’s wife”.
Being a wife is a good job, and raising kids is a good job, but nothing commendable on the world stage.

She might have sacrficed her own carreer, but that’s irrelevent for this thread.

Absolutely there is because when foreign women come to Saudi Arabia and dont cover up it causes gasping and placing of hands over mouth in conservative Saudi Arabian circles, legal or not. And what bigger foreign woman to do so than the First Lady of the United States?

There is no gasping, no hands over mouth, nothing, zero. It’s not as if she’s taken a Blackhawk and landed on top of the Kaaba naked while wearing only a a bacon neckalce while juggling burning Korans.
Want a bigger foreing woman?: Angela Merkel, Michelle Bachelet, Ewa Kopacz, Ana Jara, Kolinda Grabar-Kitarović, Catherine Samba-Panza… you know women who were elected, who get named Prime Minister.

The United States is well documented in sending official condemnations in many Saudi Arabian human rights issues, including those against women. Cutting off a loyal ally unless they drastically change their human rights policies is not going to help anyone, if anything, it could alienate and isolate the Saudi government and maybe make it worse.

Being an influential ally, yes WITH LEVERAGE, and reminding them we know what they are up to and we don’t like it is the only thing that will bring slow, gradual change to that society.

Official condenmations??? Wow, that’d surely show the Saudis.

Tantrum? What tantrum? She showed up sans that scarf and did ruffle some
feathers. Her symbolic act is way more effective than a Facebook “like”.

Again, no feathers at all.
Effectivenes in actually helping actual women with actual suffering = 0

So you admit that a Saudi official NEVER visited the White House with 4 women bowing down to him, is that a correct statement.

Do you even grammar?
My only point was that if MO had actually flaunted SA’s laws and traditions because she thaught they were repressing women, then, tit for tat, you’d had to accept the same.

If you abandon Saudi Arabia as an ally in the Middle East, you make Iran, a country with even worse civil rights abuses, even more powerful than it already is in that part of the world. Sometimes with allies, you have to hold your nose as your signing treaties of friendship.

Definitely, but it only means that SA’s human rigths violation can go on forever, aided and abetted by the US.
“My ally commits slightly fewer atrocities” is not a nice position, it might be a realpolitik position, but it undermines any moral case you may want to present.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@John_Mace

Yeah, but the French President is totally checking her ass out!

Yeah, while the video pretty much exonerated Obama, the French President not so much if I remember correctly.

He’s a horn dog. I mean come on, he’s the President of France. He’s practically swimming in vagina.

[Shodan]

@Knorf

Heheh. Nice.

And, entirely forgivable.

YMMV.

Forgivable? Look at that butt - it’s practically required.

Regards,
Shodan

[Shodan]

@Aji_de_Gallina

It’s not as if she’s taken a Blackhawk and landed on top of the Kaaba naked while wearing only a a bacon neckalce while juggling burning Korans.

I like thigh-high boots better.

Regards,
Shodan

[adaher]

That would be the kind of thing I could see Madonna doing.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You mean Lady Gaga.

Madonna stole every idea Lady Gaga ever had.

Insert playful smiley face here…

[Aji_de_Gallina]

@Shodan

I like thigh-high boots better.

Regards,
Shodan

Let’s compromise.
Bacon thigh-high boots.

[Shodan]

No, the boots have to be leather. The bikini can be bacon.

Regards,
Shodan

[Aji_de_Gallina]

@Shodan

No, the boots have to be leather. The bikini can be bacon.

Regards,
Shodan

Ok, ok, leather.
Bacon garter, no bikini.

[Shodan]

Now you’re talking!

Regards,
Shodan

[GrumpyBunny]

@iiandyiiii

Snarking about snark… does that make it completely serious? I’m not sure how that works.

It should, kind of like a double negative in grammar.