Microagressions, political correctness, innate bias, and hypersensitivity.

Well yeah but what is being a jerk varies greatly to different people and whether or not and how to call out jerkish behavior, especially when one sometimes some of what you perceive as being a jerk is more the result of ignorance than malintent, is also unclear.

And to me at least that gets very complicated.

Let’s take the case of monstro’s “paper cuts.” That is exactly what “microaggressions” is about. Those I suspect are not the explicitly and clearly jerk comments - like Jenni’s comments or that “Newark residents are all niggers” one; those are at least kitchen knife ones! I’d suspect “papercuts” are the more subtle borderline ones, usually stated with no explicit malintent and which seem innocuous to many of us who do not share her background. But they each hurt her a bit and in aggregate they reach, as she states, a tipping point.

Is it her job to develop calluses, a tougher hide? Her job to educate every single person about how those, to them innocuous comments, come off to her, knowing that many will roll their eyes? Those not of her background but do get how those bother her’s job to educate others of how those, to them, apparently innocuous comments may be perceived (which of course may or may not be accurate)? The others’ job to, in their minds, walk on eggshells lest a comment meant in no harm offends?

I honestly don’t know.

Indeed–and fundamentally, you must learn to put up with stuff you don’t like, like the idea of microaggressions.

Your argument is as timeworn as it is ridiculous. Because someone else in the world has it worse, a person is not allowed to complain? By your logic, there is exactly one person alive at any given time whose complaints should be taken seriously–and that person is most certainly not you.

Fortunately, that’s not the reason I don’t take your complaint seriously. I don’t take your complaint seriously because it’s based on ridiculous reasoning.

Of course there are gradations of suffering. Of course more than six billion people on the planet have it better than someone else. That doesn’t mean those six billion people don’t have legitimate beefs. The correct benchmark isn’t whether someone else has it worse, as you absurdly suggest: the correct benchmark is whether we can adjust society to make it better for folks.

So, take a common example of microaggressions: asking someone in the US with medium-brown skin, “Where are you from? No, where are you really from?” This question is not usually asked with overt animosity; it’s not intended to be mean. Certainly I was out of college before I understood why one of my bosses (a renowned trauma surgeon) and one of my friends (a political activist) were so pissed off by the question. (This was well before the word “microaggression” was in my vocabulary).

But they were pissed. They got the question a lot, and its undertone, intentional or otherwise, was that they were “other,” they were outsiders to America, they clearly didn’t belong. It was a little thing every time it happened, but it was unpleasant every time it happened, and it happened a lot. And a very simple and minor adjustment to society–not asking brown-skinned people, based on their physical features, where they’re really from–is sufficient to solve the problem.

Which is worse: being asked where you’re really from, or being kidnapped by the Lord’s Army and being forced to murder your parents and being raped repeatedly until you’re an obedient child soldier and being forced to participate in massacres until you’re shot and killed yourself? Well, the latter, clearly. But that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t address the former issue as well.

All things being equal, people should just put up with it.

But all things are not equal. Men have more power than women, politically, socially, and economically, and their microagressions (and macroagressions) are thus harder to shrug off. Same with white / black or straight / gay. It’s just wearing to have to deal with it all the time.

When a straight white guy goes out in public, he’s not usually constantly forced to be aware of the fact that he’s straight, or white, or a guy. Microaggressions are ways of forcing people to be aware of their identity, and that said identity is considered inferior to the dominant one.

I don’t think most of them are unkindly meant or even conscious. Until I was made aware of it, I always used to offer to carry things for women, and even sometimes to insist. I was brought up that way. I had no idea that this was anything other than kind. That’s absolutely a microaggression, though, in at least two ways: reinforcing the fact that men are generally stronger than women, and pressuring women to let a man make decisions for her. And I’m not even straight! (Nowadays, I still offer, but regardless of gender, and I’ll happily take “no thanks” for an answer.)

even the “smaller” things monstro talks about are still more or less directed at her. where I interpret “microagressions” as being eye-roll-worthy are things like the above:

assuming these people are real, this just smacks of “I demand you cater to my unique snowflakeness!”

especially that second one. if you still have functioning female reproductive organs, then the warning can apply to you regardless of how you identify yourself.

“If you have functioning female organs”…while I don’t exactly agree with that one, I get it. Women are told to act every moment of their lives like they could fall pregnant any second. Even major health organizations tell women to take their folic acid…just in case.

Now a distressing amount of pregnancies are unplanned, so it is definitely a micro aggression…but aggression nonetheless for those of us women who do plan our pregnancies (or lack thereof). We are not simply walking uteruses.

Anyone thinks “proper young ladies” is not a downright aggression, though, really has no idea. I once was told “Good Indian girls don’t smoke” by an Indian gas station worker, when I was picking up smokes for a coworker. God knows I have never smoked, but I was tempted to light up the whole pack, while buying Playgirl at the same time.

Microaggressions:

  • Every time someone comes across your name they feel the need to remark on it. Or mispronounce it. Or completely butcher it. Or not even make an attempt at it.
  • “Where are you from? No, where are you really from?”
  • “Women don’t play video games. Women drivers suck. Women are golddigging whores.”
  • Someone telling me some horrible news about India just because I am Indian. “Did you know? A woman married a dog!!!”

And it’s not just white people. Ohhhh, the black thing. Indian people are incredibly racist towards blacks and assume that just because I am Indian, of course I don’t like those darkies, either. So an Indian cabbie or worker will casually say, “This place has really gone downhill since the blacks moved in.”

You bet your ass I let a lot of this shit slide. I can’t be up in arms every day of my life. But sometimes you just get WEARY of it.

One of the great cultural victories for backward-thinking people was that they made it a rule that the idea of “offense” is something that’s created by the person who is offended against, so it’s really a referendum on them. It’s worth like negative five points of respect to have been offended, so if you admit you were offended by something, the offense has to have been six points or more worth of offensive in order for you to not be in the wrong. You’re still diminished by it, but it’s excused if the behavior was bad enough. Microaggression is really the worst case scenario for this calculus. The idea that an accumulation of tiny offenses, which individually aren’t that big a deal, can lead to a really shitty experience for somebody, and that this part is a really big deal that should be other people’s problem, is actually the most offensive idea of all.

Really, like Barrett Bonden says, all it’s about is whether behavior is a little fucked up or not. But being a little fucked up, in the climate I grew up in, at least, is a badge of honor. Being a little fucked up is better than not being fucked up at all, which is better than being really really fucked up.

I’m kind of surprised more people have not checked the “it’s complicated” box, because to my mind it’s the only logical response.

A reasonable person cannot possibly deny that bias and discrimination on every level is common and pervasive in Western society. You have to be just thunderously clueless to not know that. A reasonable person also cannot possibly deny that people can be hypersensitive (Anaamika, is it really a “microaggression” if someone does not know how to pronounce your name? Not knowing how to pronouce a name you’ve never encountered is an act of aggression? How do you pronounce the name “Aislin”? How about “Aoibheann”?) and that self-professed “social justice warriors” can get their heads wedged pretty far up their own asses.

Bu sure, microaggression exists. I was playing poker recently in a casino in the USA. A guy with brown skin and a slight accent was asked where he was from.

“I’m Canadian,” the guy said.

“No, but where are you from?”

“Canada,” the guy said, in a tone clearly meant to end the conversation.

“No, but where are you FROM?”

I mean, I’m so glad I don’t have to take that shit every day.

I don’t think anyone self-professes as a social justice warrior. It’s an insult.

It is all in the attitude, and you are probably right, that “It’s complicated” is better.

See my name - “How do you pronounce that?” Asked in a friendly respectful tone - no problem.
See my name - totally butcher it because you didn’t even try, or worse yet, “That’s a weird name” - yuck.

But just like the people with the name Aislin, I have had problems with my name every single day for my entire life. I am actually seriously considering changing it to a diminutive. How is having to deal with it every single day for my entire life not a “micro” aggression? Of course it is a micro aggression. It is aggravating. And yet when someone makes the stupid jokes that always occur to them I manage yet again to smile weakly or correct their terrible pronunciation.

It’s that air of “You’re foreign and weird”, that, like it or not, comes across in a lot of interactions. I don’t consider myself foreign, I consider myself American, but I am never allowed to forget.

Micro aggression or throwing shade?

Potato / Potawto? Or both just blather?

Seriously Anaamika you don’t leave many options that don’t offend! Don’t attempt to pronounce it? Offense. Pronounce it wrong. Offense. Ask about it. Offense.

I had a Vietnamese friend in residency whose last name began with “Ng” as do many Vietnamese names and who taught me how to pronounce that correctly. Rounding on a new mother/baby whose name was listed as “Ng” I pronounced it the correct way only to be responded to huffily (yes upset with me) with “If we were in Viet Nam still but here it is ‘Ing.’” … And dang, some of the Polish names are pronounced very differently by different families spelled exactly the same.

Every reasonable attempt should be made to not casually offend and slack should be cut for no offense meant. Yes, those who are not making even a reasonable attempt deserve to be slapped down and those who cut no slack to those whose intentions are good deserve some mocking. But it leaves a whole mess of confusing middle ground.

[On preview, thank you Anaamika for the clarification.]

I’m not clear on what you mean by micro-aggression. If you mean it’s a pain in the ass, I can totally see that. But I’m not sure how you can both keep your name and not deal with it. What can a well-meaning person do to avoid this problem?

Edit: wait, maybe I misread. Are you saying that it would not be a problem if on a daily basis people asked you politely how to pronounce your name? If so, my apologies.

This morning I wanted to tell my wife about this story. I have no idea how to say this guy’s name, so I said, “You know that guy who played the Operative in Serenity? He’s gonna be cast in Dr. Strange.” I’m not good with names under the best of circumstances. I know this guy deals on a daily basis with folks not knowing how to pronounce his name; I’m sure it’s a pain in the ass. Short of his changing his name, is there a solution to this problem?

Microagression implies that the person intends to be aggressive. Mostly they’re just dumb.

I’ve had bad eyesight all my life. When some genius looked at my glasses and said, “Gee, you got bad eyes!”, to him it was a novel concept, because he probably never saw anyone with glasses as thick as that (who wasn’t carrying a white cane and had a German Shepherd on harness). But he wasn’t trying to get over on me. If he wanted to do that, he would have called me “four eyes”. He was just being stupid, in that two seconds thought would have concluded that I was probably aware of the state of my vision.

My kids are Asian; I’m not. “Are they really yours?” isn’t a microaggression. Therefore it is better to have a prepared response that doesn’t treat it as an attack unless it is one. “Yes, they’re mine, and I have the paperwork to prove it” is usually more appropriate than “Fuck you, racist”.

If he is taking a dig at you, that’s one thing. If he is just saying the first thing that comes into his head because he notices something he has never seen before, that’s something else.

And sometimes it’s just silly -

Makes for great Monty Python bits, though.

Regards,
Shodan

On a daily basis, people do ask me how to pronounce my name, politely. :slight_smile: Well, maybe not daily, because I have most people trained to call me by my chosen diminutive.

But -

  • How about people who ask what my “real” name is - no biggie - then misprounounce it despite being told what how to say it, then ask where I am from, then giggle over my name.
  • How about people who decide to use my real name, for fun? They see it on my email (have to put it there) and decide to pronounce it, butchering it, just because? I had one dude who I really had to scold and insist he call me by the name I had chosen. His answer? “But that [your full name] that’s your name.”
  • And of course there are the people who think everyone should be named John and Mary.

Is there a solution? As people have said, tons of names out there that are hard to pronounce. There is a polite way to ask about them and not make the owner feel foreign.

But really, I promise you, being huffy is not the way to educate. I try to be a representative, really. Just like everyone, I have a lot of identities that I feel I need to represent. Indian, atheist, woman. I try not to be huffy with people unless I can tell they really are being rude!
I also try to take a card from something similar to what Shodan points out: “Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity.”

Argggh, I can totally see how this would be aggravating. What I hate is when people reveal certain assumptions about me based on nothing but stereotypes, and I don’t know what to say in response that won’t make for an awkward scene.

The other day I was visiting with some friends of my fiancé (both white) and we were talking about classism. Then suddenly the subject shifted to race relations. His friend opined that prejudice goes both ways, and that blacks can be just bigoted as whites. I didn’t argue with any of this, and in fact, I agreed that whites don’t have a monopoly on racism.

She then looked at me and offered that I probably “act too white” for a lot of blacks. Hmmmm…da fuq? So now I gotta wonder what in the heck would make her say that. Because I’m not yo-yo-yoing like Flava Flav? She really doesn’t know me well enough to say something like this. The truth is that I’ve never really had my identity or sense of belonging called into question by black people simply because I don’t fit a stereotype, and I’ve never felt pressured to racially conform either. I know some black people have this experience, but I have not.

I calmly and good naturedly explained that no, I’ve never had the “too white” experience. Didn’t ask her why she would assume otherwise or implore her to check her assumptions or anything like that. Basically laughed it off, and yet still the exchange made me mentally sigh. I’m not exactly wanting to talk about race with her again, either.

“Microaggressions” is a name for a phenomenon that has always existed: thoughtless comments or actions that are either offensive and/or alienating, but are so vague, indirect, or minor that it would cause more cost than benefit to the individual to directly confront them. Just because we’ve finally named something that is old as dirt doesn’t mean we’re being hypersensitive.

But I do agree that there is a trend in people using social media to draw attention to themselves all in the name of being offended about something.

I definitely have had Indian people telling me I am too American for my own good. I didn’t marry within my own race, so I am somewhat of a pariah amongst my people. But no white person has ever thought to tell me that I act too white.

As for the social media warriors, yeah, I kind of just ignore those. If it bothers them, well, fine, but nothing I have faced has been too much for me, even when there was overt racism*, and so * shrug * I’ll get through it.

*Sometimes I prefer overt racism. It’s nasty but at least you know to avoid it and people believe you when you tell them.

I called out a microaggression recently. A middle-aged man told me (a woman) that he’d always “thrown like a girl.” I told him, point-blank, “Rick, that’s a microaggression.” We were watching a group of young people throw a football around, and right in front of us, saw a demonstration of both women and men throwing well - and poorly!

He agreed that his usage was thoughtless and stereotyped. Maybe he won’t say it again in the future, especially not in front of impressionable children.

So I like the term. It’s useful. If I’d said, “Hey, Rick, that’s a sexist and stereotypical comment,” would it have had the same effect? Who knows.

I am nervous of asking, but mentally I pronounce it Anna Meeka. Is that close?

Reegahrdss,
ShowDann

BTW - this is a great way to deal with it when you think someone said something stupid.

Not really. You are free to ignore them if society thinks they are silly. If you ignore them because you think they are silly but society doesn’t, then society is free ostracize you. You’re only free in as far as you don’t care about society hating you.

There are people today who think black people caring about being called “nigger” is silly. If your statement was really true, that would be okay. But if you take what I said into account, you can understand that society has rejected that belief.

Yes, there are always people who will overdo it, but, at some level, that’s kinda a necessity. Because society always eventually settles at a compromise. You have to be pushing the boundaries to move the Overton window, so that the majority of people will be on board with the most important changes.

Do note that this is explicitly about sensitivity and offensiveness. It’s not an excuse for misandrist feminism or the like. There’s this attempt to treat social justice and offensiveness as the same thing. There is some overlap, but there are things that are morally wrong without appealing to how much you offend someone.

It’s also not an excuse for going off on someone because your fringe sensibilities were offended, when you know that they were not trying to be offensive. You can argue for it being offensive without being offensive yourself.