Microporous Jacket Laminates (Gore-Tex vs. Helly Tech, etc.)

Factual Questions
1

I just bought a Helly Hansen El Cap (El Capitan) jacket from REI Outlet with Helly Tech laminate and mesh lining. Some somewhat knowledgeable outdoor people urged me not to get anything except Gore-Tex and the North Face, but I went ahead and got a HH jacket. So, what is really the best laminate on the market? What is a laminate jacket really worth? Are any of them really breathable?

You know, doing what is right is easy. The problem is knowing what is right.

–Lyndon B. Johnson

2
      • A few years back when I was into bicycling enough to buy cold weather riding clothes, the guys at the outdoor shop said that Gore-Tex works great, but it costs more and if you aren’t doing something where you’re directly exposed to water, you don’t really need it. (I dunno everything else that was available at the time) I paid $220 for a Cannondale jacket - nylon shell with polyester sweater liner. The [removable] sweater liner is very soft, but no thicker than a typical sweater. The label doesn’t note any special treatments on any of the materials at all. Gore-Tex jackets of the same brand were priced starting considerably higher, for comparable examples.
  • What I bought works great - too great, almost. I found out that if the temperature is above 20 degrees or so, I have to leave the zipper partially open because otherwise it’s too hot. If I do something strenuous, the liner gets soaked with sweat, but it doesn’t get cold at all - the sweat just evaporates away. It is surprisingly warm considering how thick it is(n’t); it is way warmer than any “regular” jacket I have had. All the rest of my bicycling clothes are made of this same stuff and I have gone riding in sub-zero temperatures, and the only thing that ever got cold was my nose.
    Even when I’m not riding, I love the way it fits- extra long waist, snug at the openings but somewhat loose everywhere else, particulary in the shoulders. “Normal” jackets do not fit like this, ever. I only wish that they made matching pants. - MC
3

I think Gore-Tex is just the most widely-known name brand of breatheable materials. There are others that do the same thing, are not as widely known and cost considerably less than Gore-Tex.

I was looking for a 3-season rain coat. LL Bean wanted $400 for a coat with Gore-Tex material. I compared that coat with a similar coat at www.campmor.com made with a breatheable material that was less than half the LL Bean price. I “field tested” the jacket from Campmor by visiting the Hoh Rain Forest in Washington in both snow & rain, results = warm & dry. I was also plenty dry during Hurricane Floyd as I ventured out to ensure that no shingles were blowing off the roof of my house.

My advice - stay away from the brand name, Gore-Tex, too over priced.

“Quoth the Raven, ‘Nevermore.’”
E A Poe

4

The best deal on Gore-Tex raingear is from Cabelas in Sydney Ne. About $225 a set. They are at http://www.cabelas.com.

I’ve had mine for about five years and abused the shit out of it. I’m a longshoreman and used it while lashing containers to the decks of ships in the rain and have got it so covered with marine grease that I have washed it several times in hot water and TSP, the stuff used to degrease walls for painting. This is not the recommended method for cleaning this stuff.(Don’t do this at home, kids!)
It still works, but you’ll never feel as dry as a warm summer day. The rain cools the surface of the garment so that there will be some condensation on the inside in spite of the fact that vapor can pass through. I have never tried any of the other brands.

The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways; the point, however, is to change it. (Karl Marx, 1845)

5

Yeah, ConMan, that is what I suspected. I have a Helly Hanse Packable II from about six months ago, but I have not had a chance to check it out. Gore-Tex seemed to be too hyped to live up to its breathable claims. The only think I know about Helly-Tech breathability is that when I put some hot water in it, steam came out on the outside at about half the level of the inside. The other thing that I hate about some Gore-Tex jackets is that idiotic, over-priced brands like The North Face slap thick, unbreathable heavy Cordura nylon all over the jacket instead of just abraison prone zones like shoulders, hips, and elbows. Marmot is guilty of this on some jeckets but not all. TNF goes up to $500 to get away from this. By the way, hell of a deal right now I think:
http://www.reioutlet.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=319605&prmenbr=8000

You know, doing what is right is easy. The problem is knowing what is right.

–Lyndon B. Johnson

6

The thing about gore-tex (and the pricier companies that use it, like Marmot, North Face and others) is the lifetime guarantee. See, no matter what they say, the jacket wears out eventually – generally the seams fail causing leakage. You send it back to the jacket company, you get a new one free. A friend of mine has sent his north face back 3 times over a 10 year period, and gotten a new jacket each time. So, it starts to become economical over a long period versus a jacket with no guarantee – he’s down to about $100 a jacket!. I’ve sent a Soltice jacket back and gotten a store credit for the entire price of the coat, and it was about 7 years old and battered to hell.

The companies are banking on the idea that most people don’t bother with the guarantee.

7

Sorry; I’m happy with my caped oilskin Aussie jacket. Works good, lasts longtime, and when it gets really cold I wear a sweater underneath. Absolutely wind and waterproof.

VB

TANSTAAFL!

8

I bought an ll bean gortex/thinsulate parka about 8 years back for about $220. I didn’t see many other parkas for much less, especially not ones that were as well made (9 pockets, integral stuff-away hood, xlarge, xlong, great coat). I like it a lot, and definitely recommend it. Gortex was very expensive for awhile, but has come down. I think the big issue is not gortex, but who you buy it from. No matter what it’s made of, premier outdoor companies like north face will sell it for an absurd amount of money, although I admit their stuff is very good.
My ll bean parka has a lifetime guarantee too (I can send it in anytime and they’ll give me new one, no questions asked), and I got it for a fraction of what a north face parka costs.

9

well… never ahd a goretex jacket… but had a pair of boots with goretex and they were the best waterproof boots I ever had.

on the subject of coats… my 3/4 lenght German army surplus parka has never failed me. not 100% waterproof but all you’ll ever need.