Well you should get to work on that, then.
First, I don’t know (or care) who Atrios is and why I should give a fuck about what they wrote. But regarding what you posted: yeah; no shit, Sherlock. If the alternative is Trump, whose side are you on?
DYAC!
You know, this isn’t the official Dem HQ forums, could you drop the “whose side are you on” shit? People can discuss their actual opinions, not just shut up and line up.
This is a stupid and unfounded assertion. Were you not here in 2016? Or is it just a weekly Lame Democratic Talking Point, and that’s why Joe Biden said something similar yesterday?
Those voters are largely dead or have been bought off.
No. Feel free to discuss your opinions; there’s no reason not to.
But Democrats tearing down Democrats is stupid, counter-productive and a losing strategy IMO and I’ll continue to call it out when I feel it’s necessary.
The goal is “Trump is not re-elected”. All other goals are secondary at the moment.
Right. This nonsense (and I’ve seen it on Twitter as well) that Bloomberg is basically Trump just makes the speaker seem so ridiculous that there is no reason to continue to listen to them. Because since when did Trump care about climate change or gun control or a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants or expanding health care coverage?
From the Democratic perspective thinking that George W Bush would make a better President than Kerry in 2004 would seem a rather colossal misjudgement. Someone who made this misjudgement is likely to make all sorts of bad decisions and appointments especially in areas like national security and regulation where Presidents do have a lot of leeway. Bloomberg is also terrible on financial regulation where his views are exactly what you would expect of a Wall Street billionaire. If he becomes President there is every possibility of a weakening of financial regulations which would make a new crisis more likely in the future.
He really would be a terrible pick from a Democratic perspective. Perhaps it would make sense as a desperation move if he was the only person who could beat Trump but I see no evidence of this and there are obvious weaknesses that he would have both from a turnout and persuasasion perspective. Do you really think he will inspire minority voters or persuade the white working class?
But Democratic primary voters often resemble the ‘certain people in this thread’ you’re talking about even if general election voters more rarely do. So if you mean SAF and party switching would not be giant issues in general election if Bloomberg were somehow Democratic nominee I agree. To get to the nomination though both could be serious problems, and the first one amped up by recently (re)publicized audio of Bloomberg talking about the issue in his often imperious style (which is another liability of his generally, he’s not a complete asshole like Trump, but he does obviously think quite well of himself). Nor has he deflected it well so far that I’ve seen, a clip of him answering it ‘that was 5 yrs ago’… 5yrs isn’t very long ago when you’re 78, and he’s running in part on his mayoralty starting 18 yrs ago.
Once you get to a general election a lot of voters even who’d vote Democratic might think of SAF as a non misguided tough on crime policy with no scare quotes. But it’s much more of a problem in the base politics of a Democratic primary, again especially being on tape talking about it in quasi-Trumpian terms (‘throw them up against the wall’ by Bloomberg is reminiscent of Trump’s ‘don’t be careful with their heads when you put them in the squad car’ and Trump didn’t even specify African American suspects in that particular comment which Bloomberg did).
Why should I look for a cite to prove your claim isn’t bullshit?
Maybe you’re in the wrong forum.
Used to be this thing called the ‘blogosphere.’ Rumor has it it’s still out there.
Atrios (Duncan Black) has been one of the best-known bloggers in the lefty blogoshere - you know, ‘our’ side - since the early 2000s. Even gets the occasional guest op-ed in places like USA Today.
Truth. Justice. The American way.
I summed up my thoughts about Bloomberg earlier in this thread like this:
But I’m not going to go around sugar-coating him or his record just to make myself feel better.
If you want to do that, knock yourself out, do your quarry thing, whatever. I certainly can’t stop you.
@Corry El
Well, I certainly agree it’s likely to be a bigger deal in the primaries. However, I’m looking at turnout in NH. I can’t find a % turnout but between the Dems and Republicans, there were 450k votes in the two primaries with a population of 1.3M – that’s not all party activists.
Gosh, thanks for your permission.
I’m an independent and Bloomberg is a Republican fat cat so we all good there.
Maybe that’s YOUR goal but I aim a little higher than “a bit less shit in this sammich I expect you to eat.”
I wouldn’t vote for Bloomberg if he paid me–which, given his history with women and his current tactics, might actually be in the cards. I’m old fashioned though, and actually believe some things should not be and are not for sale. YMObvouslyV.
So an oligarch can buy your election and you quibble and quote post each other?
This Bloom man has enough money to employ shit posters galore.
Galore.
Buying the election is absolutely what this ratfuck is trying to do. I mean, LITERALLY paying cash money for Insta mentions, among his more traditional methods. Read it and weep.
The GOP is very much wounded right now. They’ve dug themselves into a hole that has left everyone but the true believers shaking their heads in disbelief.
Electing Bernie now would be like giving them a standing eight count. They would regroup, catch their breath, and come out more batshit energized than ever in 2022 and 2024. Nothing would get accomplished in Bernie’s first two years, and the GOP would have a boogie man far scarier than they ever painted Barack Obama. And boom, the GOP is back in business.
There’s less likelihood of that happening with someone like Bloomberg, imo. Plus, Dems have a better chance of keeping the House and even taking the Senate with Bloomberg as the nominee. Vulnerable purple and red state/district Dems are extremely nervous over a Sanders nomination. They, and we, should be. They’re more likely to lose reelection if Bernie’s the victor.
I want massive, devastating damage to the GOP. Bernie’s victory would give the GOP new energy. Bloomberg’s victory, on the other hand and imo, does much more punishing damage to the party of fascist lunatics.
Is Bloomberg flawed? Hell yeah. So is Bernie. So are a lot of previous presidents (even the ones regarded as “good” or “great.”) But despite his flaws, even the ones that have been condemned as racist, Blooms seems the best equipped to do some serious damage to the Cult of Trump. The African-American voters and electeds lining up with him seem to agree.
Four more years of President Trump would be far worse than even Bloomberg’s worst shit he did in the past. I also believe a Sanders presidency wouldn’t do enough to move the GOP into the dumpster of history, while an seasoned, pragmatic, moderate and yes, well-funded leader like Bloomberg would.
Will I still vote for Bernie if he’s the nominee? With absolute relish and joy in my heart. But it’s far from my ideal.
Up is down, left is right. People not dying from lack of health care in the richest country in the world is great.
Talk yourself into voting for a billionaire.
The main advantage that I see Bloomburg having, is that he will be much harder for Trump and the Republicans to attack that the other potential candidates, because all of his faults and flaws (of which there are many well documented in this thread) are also exhibited by Trump to a larger and more obvious degree. Sure they can rely on a double standard, IOKIARDI, but it isn’t a broad topic like socialism where there is a clear distinction between the two sides. Chances are they will try to lead with gun control, but Its not clear that that works entirely in their favor. The most e3ffective line of attack is to rely on disaffection and targeted disinformation to suppress the Democratic vote with the bothsideism expressed by SmartAleq and others.
At this point I’m thinking of just sitting out on the primary, all of the remaining Democratic candidates have flaws that I find greatly concerning in terms of character, policy, or elecaibility. So I may just let those who actually have strong feelings one way or another make the choice.
SDMB judging what is easy to attack is not a good idea. We are fuckwits in that sense. Just go with policy.
Also Bloom is short and seems rapey. So easy.
…is this a “yes” you are giving the anti-vaxxer a pass or a “no” you aren’t giving the anti-vaxxer a pass?
If you only came into this discussion to make a single point, why are you arguing so many other points?
It is a non-sequitur if you claim that “he looked at the science” when that science was “fewer guns means fewer deaths.” You appear to have retracted that now.
I’m not giving Bloomberg any credit for continuing a racist policy that terrorised black communities just because he wanted to stop “death in the streets.” You do want to give him credit for that. That’s all I’m saying. Do you think I’m wrong to not give him credit for that?
Everybody in this thread acknowledges that stop and frisk was wrong. I’m more than happy to acknowledge that you think stop and frisk was wrong. But do you think it was so wrong that it should disqualify Bloomberg from the nomination for President? And if not, then why should a man who terrorised people of colour for a decade deserve a vote?
Does anyone have figures for how much people can get paid (potentially) for doing online work for Bloom?
Some cash to posters could help to muddy the waters on his racist past.
I have heard it is the thousands.
Oligarchs will oligarch.
Electing a racist authoritarian oligarch who’s trying to buy the election in order to fight ‘fascist lunatics’ seems counterproductive. We’re talking about a man who willfully defied a court order by sending a night time paramilitary raid against protestors and journalists when he had the power to do so. Oh, and just as icing on the cake he was a big supporter of Gulf War I. If the democrats are dumb enough to run Trump lite against Trump, I’m certainly not going to vote for him.
Wonderful. Let me make a mental note. Aaaaaand…done.