I disagree but I’ll phrase it another way.
It is the customer’s responsibility to directly pay part of the worker’s wages. Even in the commission example that is not true.
Fundamentally changing a system is not easy. In Europe, employees enjoy much better social security, but this system has become so expensive that it needs to be changed, i.e., social benefits must be cut. Now, no one wants cuts in their area, and there are protests and strikes everywhere. There is talk of the threat of impoverishment among the population, but no political party is really taking action because it would lose voters. Government debt is rising and people are angry because they see their standard of living under threat. Changing entrenched systems is really difficult.
It is at any decent restaurant, and especially chains. The hospitality workers’ union is quite a big one. And if you’re aware of any place where it’s not being upheld, report them. Nothing’s going to change if civil society doesn’t take a stand.
Of course, our minimum wage is US $1.67/hr, so there’s that.
So that means the kitchen people have no chance to get more money through service. I suppose then they get a monthly wage or otherwise who would work in the kitchen?
Oh dear, ours is 15 €.
Which is why, like scudsucker, I tip here (although only 10% as a rule), but never in Europe.
The trend is definitely in the other direction. 10% tips were once the norm. Then 15% tips. Now the norm is 20%, unless I’m behind the times and stiffing the staff.
And the restaurant gets its money from what again? Oh that’s right, customers.
But what the fuck does Europe’s wages for waiters have to do with Beck telling people not to tip in America?
You’ve not worked service at the V&A Waterfront, right?
In theory both decent major restaurants I worked there, Primi Piatti and The Cape Town Fish Market… both chains, but both have seen their brief day in the sun… both never paid me minimum wage.
I got by. But not legally. I have, now I am substantially more wealthy, never been to either as a customer. Fuck them.
The restaurant gets its money from the customers. And that’s why the customers should pay for the waiters? Oh, I see.
This is the Pit as far as I know. Meandering in a subject is allowed.
Wrong. I’ve worked in a couple of (non-chain) restaurants at the V&A. Like, 30 years ago, though.
Report them to the DoE&L if you think it’s still the case.
Yeah, me too. About 30 years ago too. I wonder if we ever crossed paths?
It changed from 10% to 15% probably in the early 70s to my recollection. I was a young child but I remember the adults snarking about it. I typically do 15-20% with a floor of $10. There’s a great wood fired pizza place in Ojai that pays its workers well and doesn’t allow tips. They explain that when you order. I’d love it that was the norm.
My ex-wife is former waitstaff and wouldn’t hear of stiffing on tips. It’s generally pretty obvious when it’s a kitchen fuck up or they’re new and still learning or whatever. There was one exception. We had such horrible service at one place that she and I were fuming. The service was slow and the server was rude and downright hostile. I have no idea why because we weren’t being dicks. This would have been in the early 90s when we all carried cash and change. I left one pile with the exact amount of the bill and a separate pile with eleven cents so it was very clear that I didn’t forget to tip.
Anyway, that was an exceptional situation. I don’t like the current situation of how waitstaff are paid but until that changes, not tipping is sociopathic behavior.
Possibly.
Way I see it, if you wanna violate expectations, you should be up front about it, no matter the expectations.
If I live in a town where, after I get an oil change, it’s the default behavior to give the oil-changer a shoulder massage and a kiss on the cheek, then I’ve got four ethical choices:
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Change my own fuckin oil.
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Only get my oil changed in another town.
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Give the mechanic a shoulder rub and a kiss on the cheek.
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Before the oil change, tell the mechanic that I’m not gonna give the rub and kiss, and let them choose whether and how to change my oil knowing that I’ll flout convention in this way.
Similar choices apply to tipping. It doesn’t matter what you think of tipping, it only matters whether you, knowing the convention, choose an ethical response or not.
If I go to a restaurant where the wait staff rely on tips and where tips are priced into the overall process and where the wait staff expect tips, and I obtain services from them knowing all this, and then I don’t tip, I’ve obtained services under false pretenses. I might hate tipping culture, but if I plan not to participate and I don’t tell them about my plans, they’ll serve me thinking that I’ll tip, and I know that, and I know that the quality of service I get is only obtainable with their incorrect belief, and I’m a shitheel for using the services under those conditions.
What if they use the wrong weight of oil? Or too much or too little? Or strip your drainpan bolt?
Do they still get the massage and kiss?
Yes. The customer should work with the oil-change shop to correct any issues or negotiate any refunds if there are issues with the service. In the real world, you don’t get to garnish the pay of the actual person doing your oil change if they do it wrong either.
No one said garnishing wages. The issue was not rewarding someone for not doing the job properly
But who gets to determine that? Some asshole who decides they don’t want to pay for their meal and claims the staff didn’t do their job properly? Seems arbitrary and ripe for abuse
Look, we’ve been through this plenty and we’re very aware that you think tips are not a wage. You’re wrong, but sure. If you want to be a cheap-ass, fucking own it. Proudly walk into the restaurant and tell them you won’t be tipping if they make mistakes. In the retelling you can even tell us that everyone clapped when you yelled this for all to hear. The rest of us will continue understanding that tipped employees are intentionally underpaid based on the assumption, by the government even, that tips will make up the difference. Not tipping a wait person is no different than garnishing wages of any non-tipped service worker. Both performed a service with an expectation for fair compensation. In both cases there are methods of issue resolution that do not include reducing their wages below the level of fair compensation.
Oh, and a mild “Fuck Beck” for putting in the “Don’t tip” note that started this whole thing.