Miles Davis - musical genius or imposter?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Saw a thread from months back addressing this issue, and as the original topic wasn’t about that, started this rather than resurrecting the original thread.

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=7756

My own view is that Miles was a genius. He started more musical redirections than anyone else. The way he reinvented himself, but still remained true to art and music is amazing.

People who say his sidesmen are better than him are not noticing the amount of sidesmen he had that became great musicians. This is because (and they all support this) he was a revolutionary musician who taught them new ways of approaching music, and they learnt a lot from him.

People who criticise his performances in the last decade of his life don’t realise this he was not in good health. He was very sick for lengthy periods in the 80’s, and sometimes played more than other times. Cut the guy some slack, he should have retired by then, due to ill-health, but still had so much more he wanted to give. Besides, the sidesmen had been well-trained enough to deliver Miles’ message without needing maximum input from him.

People who think he was an average musician, and others were better technically are missing the point. He was technically good (not excellent) but it is his approach to music that makes him such a genius. He has furthered jazz in all directions more than anyone else in the latter half of the century. Some experimentation has failed, as is only to be expected (the sheer amount of work he has produced, and the daringness involved in each project means that risk-taking is involved and in such a long career, some risks are not going to work).

Any comeback? Don’t know how many people on here are into jazz…

2

you are a very addicted person Biffer :slight_smile:

I dont know enough about Miles yet to make a comment but from what I’ve heard so far I’ll have to agree.
You know that I like Coltrane and yeah I think that Miles choose good musicians to coolaborate with and they all became even better after and had a carreer of their own.god school obviously!
not a very interesting post…i know

3

The level of talent his sidemen had shows how much of a genius he was, so many excellent musicians wanted to work with him, because of his genius.

4

I’m quess all I know about Miles Davis must’ve come from the last decade of his life.

From what I saw of him, he’d wander aimlessly around the stage while the rest of the band was vamping some kind of syncopated, counterpoint, cross-chorded noise, and every so often he would bend over, blat one sour note with his horn between his knees, and then resume his wanderings.

All I can say is that he must have done some incredible stuff at some time or another. He must have. I never saw it or heard it, though. What little I saw of him made me think he was the greatest poseur that ever tortured a horn.

I can’t get into a debate about this because I never heard any of his “good” stuff. I don’t have enough of an interest in jazz to research it. If someone digs Miles, that’s cool. But I sure don’t.

5

I’ll go with genius (and arsehole). And although I listen to earlier stuff like Bitches’ Brew and Kind of Blue, I would take issue with:

The way jazz has reintegrated important and vibrant influences from hip-hop and funk is largely due to the influence of Miles (and Herbie Hancock). Just last night I was listening to a French group (didn’t get the name, sorry) which used 50s style horn heads, John Lee Hooker guitar samples and hip-hop beats. I also heard some RL Burnside. Modern music is simultaneously integrating new styles and staying true to its roots, and I think the last decade of Davis’ work has a fair bit to do with that.

And Rysdad: get Kind of Blue. Probably the most inflential record of all time, yet very easy to listen to.

picmr

6

Well, Miles ain’t my favoritest musician of all time, but I do listen to him and have more than a dozen of his albums.

Starting out as the other horn in a number of Charlie Parker’s combos (mid-1940s) is a pretty good way to kick off your career.

In the late forties Miles was the ostensible leader of the “Birth of the Cool” nine-piece ensemble, which played only two live club dates and recorded only about fourteen numbers…but those recordings were some of the most influential on jazz in the 1950s-60s.

I would argue that Gerry Mulligan and Gil Evans had more to do with the SOUND of that particular group than Miles, though. The orchestration and arrangements were the most important part, and I remember as many Mulligan and Lee Konitz solos from those 'sides as Miles.

Okay, with these sessions under his belt, Miles went out into the world and immediately started rounding up some of the best sidemen of the 1950s and '60s. Drummers Art Blakey, Max Roach, Philly Joe Jones, Tony Williams. Saxophonists John Coltrane, Cannonball Adderly, Wayne Shorter, Hank Mobley, George Coleman. Pianists Russ Freeman, Horace Silver, Wynton Kelly, Red Garland, Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea. Et cetera.

Yes, the Davis groups of the fifties and sixties made some of the best jazz around, and were highly influential. But I think if you were a musician standing on a stage with Coltrane and Evans and Blakey, you’d be doing your best to keep up with them even if the trumpet part was being played by an orangoutan. And when you left Miles’s group and started your own, as they all did, you’d be doing your part to spread the gospel.

So, yeah, Miles was extremely important to the history of jazz. As a bandleader.

As a trumpet player, though, he doesn’t hold a candle to Armstrong, Eldridge, or Gillespie…or even Clifford Brown.

IMHO.

7

Make that last line “as a trumpet player who influenced other trumpet players.” I like his style just fine.

8

I am such a moron. Of course, I post in the “Jazz is Crap” thread instead of in this one. This is what happens when you mix all night jazz speakeasys with speedballs and moonshine.

Don’t worry, I’ve e-mailed Alphie.

What I meant to say is this:

Miles is neat.

9

I’ll join in with Ike and vote for bandleader and “bringer outter of the best in others” over technical virtuoso on the instrument. Still, I could (and have)listened to “So What” over and over and over and over again in one setting and never get tired of it. There’s something new, even in that spare song, each time I hear it.

10

Hi picmr!

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying what he did wasn’t effective. I’m saying he was very ill, and could sometimes hardly make it through the concert. People saying why wasn’t he playing flat out like a fit 20 year-old are missing the point, he could hardly make it on stage sometimes. I’m not saying the music wasn’t worthwhile.