I find this interesting - adultery and/or lying is looked on more harshly within the military, i’d guess you mean? Why do you think this is so?
A disiplined group of people who have to rely on each other to survive are less likely to trust someone who cheats on a loved one.
I’m no longer active duty, but experience was very much that Democrats are commie pinko fags, and in Clinton’s case, a commie pinko pot-smoking fag. Of course I was Democrat, and found lots of like-minded friends, there are more than you think, but if there is an overall attitude towards politicians in the military, Democrats are not looked well upon.
However, if Obama actually could figure how some genius way to get us out of Iraq, he just mignt find himself with a lot of new friends.
Of course, if you ask soldiers why they like or dislike Democrats they usually can’t articulate much of anything that they didn’t hear on Limbaugh. It’s an attitude younger soldiers inherit from older soldiers. Democrats are out to get us, Republicans are out to help us. Never mind facts.
I am currently in the Army and I find the above quote to be an accurate representation of the average soldier. Out of my company of roughly 120 people, who discussed politics quite a bit before the election, I knew maybe two people for voting for Obama, plus myself voting for Barr put it at 117 for McCain and 3 against. That should tell you how happy my little corner of the army was when Obama was elected.
To the OP question, (a) I don’t think there has been time (or record) to form a broad opinion on his policies; (b) it’s generally recommended that active servicemen with strong opinions of the sitting CinC observe, ahem, noise discipline in public, so people will tend to be circumspect and © thanks be to Og, the Founding Fathers, and a long tradition of professionalism, whether the troops like him or his policies when POTUS talks the answer is Sir, Yes, Sir. The oath is to obey his lawful orders, not to love the way he grooves. I shouldn’t care if my troops really dig the Prez, I should care that they do their job in the most effective way possible.
But yes, there was much loathing of Clinton and even some general-rank officers got in hot water for being a bit too frank in spite of (b) above.
Because those things are illegal in the military. If I cheated on my wife or lied during a official questioning, I could be fined, jailed, demoted, kicked out of the Army, etc.
Not hard to understand how soldiers who know they would go to jail, perform extra duty and/or forfeit half their pay for three months if they cheat on their wife. But it’s okay for the boss to do it?
To the OP:
I voted for Bush… twice. I wanted badly to vote against him during the second term, but Kerry didn’t do it for me.
That said… I also voted for Obama. Not only did I file my absentee ballot from Iraq, but I also donated over 400 dollars to his campaign. I’ve never felt so strongly about a President before.
I like him a lot.
I’m still active duty infantry. I just returned from 13 months in Iraq and I’ll probably be in Afgahnistan before the year’s over.
Thank you. Really.
I guess it would be a waste of time for prostitutes to ply their trade anywhere near a military base.
Part of the attitude might be attributable to Armed Forces Radio. Is not the conservative/liberal programming ratio about 10:1? When you get a steady diet of highly biased “news”, it’s hard to discern the facts from the propaganda.
The military reverence for Chimpy has always astounded me. Here’s a guy who used family influence to duck Vietnam and goes to the Champagne Squadron of the National Guard. He ducks out of that just as they begin testing for cocaine. He’s freaking Rambo while John Kerry, who volunteered for duty in Vietnam and actually took enemy fire, was considered a wimp. Un freaking believable.
I have no dog in this fight one way or the other, as far as the debate goes. I will say that while there are of course military men who carry on with hookers or “loose women” (or other military personnel, for that matter - female or, undoubtedly, male in some cases) behind their wives’ backs, there are also a lot of cases of men being cheated on while they are overseas, and I imagine this can be very traumatic, not to mention damaging to morale.
I have two good buddies whose girlfriends cheated on them with other guys while they were away at Basic training, and one who was broken up with (through a letter) while he was away. From what I have heard and read, I gather that this is not exactly an uncommon issue with people in the military, and I can certainly see why it would be more personally troubling to them than to the rest of the population at large.
The master schedule:
You also might want to read this DoD audit from 2006, regarding programming selection on American Forces Radio and the possibility of bias (in PDF)
http://www.dodig.osd.mil/Audit/reports/FY06/06-117.pdf
It is important to note, though, that most of the programming on the Voice Channel isn’t political, but instead either news or sports.
Adultery is illegal in some states but that doesn’t stop anyone. The military generally only prosecutes adultery under certain circumstances, and that’s just the adultery that they know about. I know plenty of veterans and active duty that were guilty of adultery and feel pretty safe guessing that the rate of adultery in the military is probably not distinguishable from similar demographics of people in the civilian population. It’s just not something they care about unless it has a direct impact on getting the job done.
WAG: the military are quite used to “chickenhawks” in power , there have been those since forever and they have had to adapt to dealing with them; OTOH the institutional culture will frown badly on the perception of one of your own “breaking faith” and “turning on you” to salve his own conscience, which is how Kerry’s strong post-duty antiwar activism was (rightly or wrongly) perceived by many , and then *still *trying to run for office on the war-hero record (which even I thought was not that strong a move).
Obama, as part of a generation that did NOT have to face a draft nor a total national mobilization, is a reversion to the pre-WW2 historic norm in which military service by the President would be an incidental contingent event, and not an expectation to be a serious candidate (nor having to provide a good reason why not). From 1953 to 1992 all our presidents were men who had served during the extended WW2 era, from Supreme Commander to midshipman at the Academy, from the frontlines to a training-films unit, but still, it was total mobilization. Our two Vietnam-era Boomer presidents, Clinton and Bush43, OTOH exemplified the two major ways to AVOID going over there (Clinton beat two WW2 combat vets [Bush41, Dole] in his elections; Bush43 beat at least 3 'Nam in-country vets in primaries and elections [McCain, Gore, Kerry]).
Yea, because every soldier is married and prostitutes couldn’t possibly have anything to offer single soldiers. :rolleyes:
I know dozens of people who have paid for prosititutes before. Less than three of them were married. And one of them was “seperated”.
How could they possibly prosecute adultery that they don’t know about? What kind of statement was that?
If a spouse makes a formal complaint, the soldier will be dealt with. Keep in mind that this doesn’t just mean prosecution and court martial.
It doesn’t take a prosecution to restrict a soldier to the base, assign him extra duty and take away half his pay for three months and reduce him in rank. All that can be done without prosecution. So keep that in mind when you’re researching statistics that tell you “The Army hardly ever prosecutes adultery”.
If a spouse complains, the soldier WILL face action. Period. I have never once heard of a spouse makign a complaint where the Army did not follow up and the soldier did not at least get flagged from favorable actions and have to forfeit pay.
I bet it isn’t. I never said soldiers were saints. But I bet the rate of consequences for adultery in the Army is much, much higher than in any of those states you claim also make adultery illegal.
Add in the witch hunts that followed tailhook and how far they went.
Declan
For someone who is both strongly pro-Obama and very interested in military policy, this has been fascinating. Thank you to those who have, or who still are, serving their country. We’re indebted to you.
It was a statement saying 1) Even when they know about adultery, they don’t normally prosecute and 2) There is a lot, likely a majority, that they don’t even know about. “They” being prosecutors, COs, or others who are in a position to start an investigation or punish those who commit adultery. Sorry the sentence was unclear.
You think base restriction or extra duty will stop them from adultery? They’re risking a divorce, STDs, unplanned pregnancies, child support, etc. Hitting in the wallet works, but most of the people I’ve known who get into trouble (not just adultery) just shrug off things like extra duty and base restriction as part of the deal.
All from a complaint? Nothing has to be proven? Or the guilty person will usually confess?
I just have a hard time believing that the consequences unique to the military change the behavior any more than all the consequences I mentioned that are not unique to the military.
For married men, yes. It’s punishable in the military.
I don’t know any people who consider Bush any kind of military hero - even in the circles I run in. Sorry.
The most you’ll get from me is a bit of respect for his skills as a pilot - the plane he flew had a reputation as a pilot killer.
This is the cockpit of the Delta Dagger. There were no heads-up displays then - he would hand had to lean over and peer through that hood at mach speeds to see his radar. Often he would have had to do so at night, with a darkened cockpit.
Whatever was going on in Vietnam, what he was doing wasn’t without its own risks - and he was on full time active duty for two years just learning to fly the thing.
As for Kerry, what he did in Vietnam was certainly heroic - and I’ve said so here. But protesting the war in the manner he did so when he got back was controversial - especially the part about accused atrocities. It rubbed a lot of military people the wrong way - and this came to a head when he chose to make his military heroism the focal point of his presidential campaign.
Don’t be sorry, I hope you’re right. But how was Bush “one of them” and why was he treated like a rock star among the troops when a guy like Kerry who actually walked the walk treated like a leper?
Because after Vietnam Kerry didn’t do jack shit for the active duty military - and in fact cut their programs every chance he could. Add to this his own interesting personal history, and it isn’t surprising that people in the military would have the attitude toward him that they did.
You probably remember this, right? Look how the troops are smiling - you can see how much personal respect they have toward a man they regard as a political joke.
